The EM13 has been available in Japan for a couple of years for use in Kato's Japanese prototype electric MU sets, the EM13 goes in the powered car and an FL12 function decoder, (which by the way also fits a slot designed for the purpose in the Super Chief and Daylight observations, but Kato choose not to tell us anything about that for some reason), goes in each end car to operate the head and tail lights. The EM13 may well have functions, but since they've never been needed Kato with their tendency to tell you only what they think you need to know just haven't documented them, the instructions for all mine were in Japanese anyway.
I've sent Kato an email explaining my situation half way around the world and asking if they can send me the kit and instructions, They are most likely inundated with emails, so I'm patiently waiting for a reply. The clip may not be needed for other brand decoders installed in the tender, but if you had it, it would eliminate a pair of wires between engine and tender and the need to insulate, and solder wires directly to the motor, thus making for a simpler installation. My reason for wanting to use the EM13 was that I already had one and using it would have got the engine running quickly while I took my time looking at a sound installation. I think the main beef is that Kato could be saying "you only get the retrofix kit if you use our brand decoder". I say "could be", we're not 100% sure yet.
Ouch....I hope not! I'm ASSUMING that the clip would be installed for future releases at the factory, AND they would make it available free of cost to first run customers. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I know that I personally pay the somewhat higher Kato prices on the presumption that if something does go wrong, then a quick resolution will follow. A little like "insurance" for lack of a better phrase. We'll see how this plays out over the next 1 or 2 months.
The clip prevents intermittent shorts between the upper frame and the lower frame due to driver contact with the upper frame. If your installation wires the decoder motor outouts (orange and gray) to the motor brush caps directly (and they are insulated from the upper frame), then you have avoided (not fixed) the problem and no clip is needed. If, OTOH, you wish to use the upper frame halves and the connection to the tender through the upper drawbar for motor power or other use (perhaps to feed the rear light from a boiler mounted decoder), then you will need to ensure isolation of the upper frame, and the clip (or milling or kapton tape or...) will be necessary.
The problem is two fold...... 1) Kato tried a new design that failed 2) Kato did not adequately system fail-test. This whole thing has the feel of a "project designed by committee". I praise the attempt at a clever engineering trick, but the final product came out a little shy of being acceptable. It seems that some corners were cut during project development that contributed to the design failure. The retro-fit solution seems great to me, but should never have been needed.
Generally, if it works on DC, it will work on DCC. This is one of those little things that always slips through and is best found using 20/20 hindsight. Be thankful that the loco wasn't developed by Microsoft. You'd be on "GS-4, Service Pack 2", with 6 security patches by now. (Although one might also say, "never go with a 'dot zero' release")
Keep in mind the failure is only apparent in one mode of operation when using the factory suggested decoder, not when using a different brand or running on DC. In the end, the fault was identified early and a solution developed quickly. Whether the correct way of notifying customers and the method suggested to have the fix applied was right, wrong or indifferent is clearly currently open for debate. Regardless, yes, it shouldn't have got there in the first place but now it has been discovered subsequent releases using similar frame designs will have this issue avoided. Hopefully Kato will not suffer the same amount of flak that IM did over the reversed roof (or was it sides) on their F7B's, which wasn't even noticed by the loudest complainants until brought up months after initial release. Hey Doug, wouldn't it be funny if MS-designed decoder created a blue screen of death on the throttle?
GS-4 back; NOT fixed You may recall me from 4 earlier GS-4 threads - I had one of the DC units that chattered and discussed with several of you whether the problem was mechanical or electircal. When I returned mine to Kato, I included a letter summarizing our experimenting. I explained that, although the chattering sounded mechanical, subbing a brand new MRC 1300 (supposedly "pure DC") for my old Troller Auto Pulse seemed to cure the problem - just like running a 9-volt battery test. I explained that, powering with the other cab, an MRC Tech 4.350, eliminated the reverse-direction chatter, but still allowed forward chatter. I wasn't willing to accept the directional chatter if there was an easy-fix mechanical problem. I just got the GS-4 back from Schaumburg. Kato's only communication was a yellow slip of paper reading, "This locomotive has had a DCC insulatiing spacer Installed to make it compatible with DCC." I believe that's ALL Kato did, because the chatter is still there. My first test, getting it back, was once around the layout, powered with the MRC 1300. Very nice, both directions. But when I put 10 cars on her, she chattered going up a grade - something I didn't see before with the new MRC 1300. Since it chatters with a "pure DC" pack, I'm inclined to believe it's mechanical. I'm not bothered that DCC compatibility is a bigger issue than my DC chatter. I am bothered that Kato doesn't seem to have paid any attention to the test info that we all developed and I forwarded. Or doesn't care. I guess I had too much confidence in Kato's past reputation for quality and service. But for $130, it isn't worth the frustration - life is too short. I've got 2 flawless Hudsons that'll go back to hauling the Siskiyou Daylight. It seems Kato has changed since the Hudsons. Bye-bye Kato-san. Scott
The GS4 and Daylight cars seem to have spawned more threads than anything else Kato have produced, I wonder if they are reading any of them. I sometimes wonder if Kato-san is aware of the antics of his U.S. branch.
I may owe an apology... After emailing a complaint to Kato, I received a response from Dee, today. It seemed very sincere, and he asked me to return the GS4 to him. Thinking about it, things 'happen' sometimes. I have to believe, from the tone of his email, that Kato will fix the loco. If so, my faith in Kato - and their customer service - will be restored
I was reading this thread and came across the quote above. While retailers are in the business of making a profit I do not know a single one that will sell at a loss. Those that do will be out of business in short order. With that said the model railroading community is small in comparison to some other hobbies. Many retailers are in the hobby themselves and usually will lend a hand to a fellow modeler. Kato is counting on this to get them through this unfortunate situation and they are doing their best to accommodate all that have purchased their product. As I have read in prior posts there are not many companies in this business that have not made mistakes. The die is cast in this case and until the time machine is invented Kato can not turn back the unfortunat events that have unfolded. They can only try their best to provide updates to the eqipment that has been delivered. We like many other retailers are going to assist in getting this great product up to spec. There is no compensation to the retailer from Kato that I know of. It is just the good will of retailers equipped to do the installation. If a retailer charges for the work being done that would be to cover their costs. Those that wish to "bone" a retailer for shipping or some other costs, would most likely do better sending the loco directly back to Kato for repair. My experience in this hobby has been that customers just want to have the loco fixed and running well.
I've worked for a prominent Maryland LHS. When a peice would come back that could not be repaired by the staff or myself, we'd hand the customer a new peice pending their satisfaction, then write up a damage/defect return to the vendor/manufacturer for the item thats broken. We'd have to ship that item back to the manufacturer for either credit or repair. Then ship another peice to the customer in the case of mailorder. Therefore we get boned for the shipping, but given the profit made of selling scores of multiple units, it was negligible to lose 1% of the overall profit to shipping costs. It's part of playing in the game of business. That said my point is not that the customer raping the LHS, it was a comment to state the previous to the Naysayers that think Kato should burn in H-E-Double Hockey sticks and complain about the mail order folks who would send in their locos to their LHS for the repair. And also come up with every argument in my book why I am wrong. The LHS is going to have overhead of some sort for the Kato mistake. But as you said mistakes happen (in not so many words), and the LHS will for the benefit of the hobby and small but possible sales participate, thus proving the rest of my point that those that are complaining should suck it up, cause the rest of the world will move on.
Honestly, the best advice I could give you. Pay the price of shipping and send it back to Kato directly. Your LHS (I'm a former employer of such) may have gotten a bad shipment of lemonized units and you'd be better off to send it direct to Kato... the USA address. I'l open up "Pandora's Box" here in a few paragraphs. There is without a doubt a loss to the LHS to the tune of about 15% plus the cost of shipping. In some cases they will take care of preferred customers by handling the shipping and repairs for you or hand you a new unit off the shelf. However, they've learned over the years that their customers do better and get timely service if they deal directly with the manufacturer. Just a word of caution "Pandora's Box": I'm not quite sure how to approach this but I've seen HS's (Hobby Shops) attempt to repair the units and turn them back out as new. Or if a customer wants a new unit off the shelf they will pick-up the one they repaired and put it out there as...you guessed it. Thus my advice... No, I'm not kidding...this happens. Have fun!
Well put, Ben and Vince! I don't think anyone wants to stick anyone. I know that Dee and Kato are working hard to fix the GS4. I believe that all involved want to minimize everyone's pain and get back to enjoying the hobby. Scott
