Kato asks everyone to contact their dealer for installation. Has anyone done this? What did the dealer say is supposed to happen and who has to pay for what? Jason
Tootshore - I pretty much answered your highly opinionated interpretation of Kato's release. You need to re-read it again to see where the differences are. Having a tow truck come out for a $20-60,000.00 new vehicle is a stretch on the similarities of remedies for these 2 products. Go for the refund. Has anybody noticed that out of all the remedies suggested by numerous posters, there are a select few that find none of them viable? If I were them I would return it and never buy a KATO, ever, again. Brian
My guess is that the second run, due to be delivered any time will have the clip factory installed, and as for the may 7th announcement, is that the decoders will come with the clip in the package. the fix for those that have the purchased the decoder already, is to get the clip form your LHS, and have them do installation if it is beyond your skills, and if that's not possible you can either get the clip direct from Kato, or as a last resort send the loco to them for the work to be done. just my guesses.
BK - my "highly opinionate" post was written AFTER my informant received the dealer only e-mail and BEFORE KATO had enough negative esponse from their dealer net to edit some of their message. Sure - they didn't do it on purpose, but they did it none the less and to attmept to shift the cost to repair their damage to their dealer net is flat out bad business. Has it happened before - you betcha. Recall the debacle about the passenger ar couplers? Three shops wrote me about that one and more would have I am sure. As for me - as my late Mother said often "What happens in two's, happens in three's" - I wont be there for the third 'accident'. Toots
Those who are saying the Kato fix be an easy to install plastic clip, do you know any more about it and where did you get your info? How easy? Will much, or any disassembly be involved? Kato aren't giving away too much to us customers on their website. I would imagine it would have to have be very easy to put in if they are trusting installation to dealers, what would the position be if a dealer botches it up and ruins your loco? I almost lost a couple of handrails taking the shell off mine. What do dealers think of having to do the job, no matter if it's easy or not it will take time. Kato say they will post a list of dealers, this sort of implies that not all dealers will be participating or they would just say take it back to your place of purchase, and those that are will be doing more engines than just the ones they sold themselves.
Ok well what you feel and what is fact may be two different things. There is no written warranty expressed or implied that is included with the locomotive. I've already checked my box removed every tiny peice...zippo. However there is a limited warranty on their website: http://katousa.com/faq/warranty.html You arent happy send it back with your receipt. Tell them you want your postage reimbursed. Or take it to your LHS and have them fix it with the retrofit kit. The reason they want you to take it there is in pretty much plain english. "Items that have been modified by the modeler or anyone other than an authorized KATO repair person are not covered by the warranty." By taking it to your LHS I can gaurantee you with 99% certainty in this matter they are authorizing your LHS to do a very simple repair. This prevents you from taking tools to your model and voiding the warranty, in essence they are protecting you from yourselves. If your LHS botches the repair job well they just hand you a new on off their shelves or an I.O.U. and take it as a loss right? No. They send it back to Kato for either credit or repair. Oh they get boned what 5.50 on shipping charges so what? They pay maybe 60% of MSRP and sell it to you at 80% a loss of shipping costs aint much to an LHS when they move units in bulk. Even the small LHS can take getting boned on shipping. Did I just hear the peanut gallery in the back say BOYCOTT KATO! Honestly guys just suck it up no matter how hard everyone boo-hoos over the sand in their pants, there are ten-fold of us that will accept the peice as it is (as a simple oversight) and are happy with getting the Kato retro-fit fix from their respective LHS. For all the good that Kato has done in the hobby, there are a select few that sure love to throw them under the bus as soon as they make a mistake. What do you do when the car is out of warranty?
I've read some other forums and one interpretation that has been made is that you don't get the fix unless you use the Kato decoder, ie: take loco and EM13 to a dealer to get both installed and if you don't have a decoder the fix will come packaged with the EM13. Now that DOES sound like something Microsoft would do.
I contacted the e-tailer from whom I purchased my GS-4 and asked about this deal. He is not sure of what is going on or what will be the final determination. he did tell me that: 1. Kato will limit the number of clips to match the number of KATO decoders that the e-tailer purchased. Not good IMHO. That lets out a lot of us who planned on installing other decoders and did not purchase theirs. 2. He said KATO stated that they would not send to individuals. Not good. 3. They don't plan on making them available to dc runners, no shorting problem. OK, no shorts but if that driver set is rubbing the frame somewhere aren't you going to loose some pulling power and smooth running, especially on curves ? As a dc runner, I would want the clip. Big mess and I am not totally happy with their "fix". I will most likely drop the sound ideas and run dc only. Bummer !
Big mess indeed. EM13's don't just fit the GS4, I already had an EM13 from a Japanese dealer because I also use them in my Japanese prototype and no US dealers had them when it was announced the GS4 would use them, so it looks like I'm left out. My EM13 was just going to be temporary until I got a Tsunami installed, but that will still require the fault fixed. The fix should be available to anyone who bought a GS4, if its only a piece of plastic. Many dealers who sold the GS4 including where I got mine still don't list the EM13's, what's going to happen there, I'm sure the Japanese dealer I bought my EM13 from won't be providing it. Kato USA don't seem to have inherited the Japanese customer service ethic from their parent company.
I do speak with my wallet. If the final resolution is as stated on the Kato website, I'll pass on future offerings. I have no problems with getting the retrofit/recall parts from my dealer. This is not an automobile where the recall actions have to be carried out by an 'authorized service representative" for the sake of public safety. If my installing a factory accessory such as a decoder voids the waranty, then I have no use for the manufacturers product. This includes installing tape or plastic clips. If the retrofit requires special equipment that the average customer would not reasonably be expected to possess or have access to, then the manufacturer is on the hook. My reasoning is the publication on the Kato USA website that warned not to try operating the product with DCC. This was the admission of a flaw in the intended and designed operation of the product as it failed to meet those intentions. That is my interpretation of the facts as I have seen them. I have not seen the billing statements for services on this product, nor will I. I do not own this product. I am familiar with the manufacturers promises/ statements of specifications for the performance characteristics. I trust that the vendors who perform these services will let us know what the real consumer and vendor costs are. I would expect that Kato would absorb all of the costs associated with the installation of the retrofit clips. I would expect that the cost of decoder installation by factory authorized service representatives should have been stated with the offering of the accessory product. There is no disclaimer stating that any warranty is voided by installation of OEM accessories in any product offering of this and related products. If you add a quart of oil purchased from the dealer or as recommended by the manufacturer to your car, the warranty is intact; if you install a memory card in your digital camera, the warranty is intact and if you meet reasonable requirements for taking advantage of advertised features of a locomotive, the warranty should be intact. We all are entitled to a reasonable expectation of merchantabilty. That means that the product will function as advertised. So far Kato has left the question open as to how and where this issue will be resolved; as well as who is footing the bill. Until we start seeing photocopies of invoices from the customers who have had the service completed, it's still up in the air. Bob
Could someone please post a diagram or photo of the area where the driver hits the frame? Anyone have milling photos? Steve E.
Nobody knows what "the clip" looks like. The clip idea was born from various conversations others have had with Kato. All that is really known is Kato has a part to install that will cure the shorting issue. The only people that really need this are the ones that want to install the EM13 decoder. The Kato "press release" states that if you already have an EM13 decoder that you planned to install, contact them to make arrangements. Has anybody actually contacted them? For anybody else wanting to install other brands of decoders, the clip is not needed. Instalation will require running a couple of wires between the tender and loco and isolating the motor, but nothing more. Do this and you get the same functionality as an EM13. This is an easier install than many of the steam offerings out there. I am running DC currently and have not desire for "the clip". My loco runs very well as is. Should I decide to convert it to DCC, I wouldn't use an EM13. With the EM13 you have no control of lighting effects, not even directional lighting. As far as I know, it is a featurless decoder, no speed tables, no BEMF, no momentum, etc. The advantage of DCC is to be able to control the bells and whistles so to say. The EM13 won't do that, it is just a speed controler. If you are going to do something, do it right, not half way. The EM13 is halfway.
this link is to the install of a tsunami, but it has the pics your looking for http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?p=479435
Here is a better view of the frame milling job by DSZ&N: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=96933 Ben
Keep your shirt on guys, help is on the way. I sent my GS-4 back to Kato soon after it arrived because of an inoperative headlight. While it was there the problem with the short arose. My GS-4 was returned today. The headlight works! But of more interest to you is the little yellow slip of paper that says: My GS-4 arrived today. There is a note inside the jewel case that says: "This locomotive has had a DCC insulating spacer Installed to make it compatible with DCC." Jerry
I can understand not wanting to use the EM13 since it does not have lighting controls, but I thought I should point out that it does have BEMF:KATO DCC Decoders. It also has Transponding, which leaves me to believe that it is actually made by Digitrax or at least KATO worked with Digitrax on the design of it. If that is the case, I would expect it to have speed tables and momentum(actually, I would expect that anyway because most decoders now do have these features). Unfortunately, I have never seen any documentation on these decoders, so I can't say for sure.
Are you sure about that? The decoder specs say that there is a function and it looks like there are pads on the board off the IC. I know that the EM13 doesn't control the lights in the GS4 but doesn't that have to do with the tender install and not the decoder? Jason
