Train shows, a constant disappointment

We have no sales tax in Oregon. It's one of the reasons that I don't go shopping for much of anything when I am on a trip. If I can get the same thing at home and not pay tax why should I buy it on a trip?

It's also the big reason that retailers in Portland often have customers with Washington addresses. Go to any of the malls on a weekend and look and about 1/3 of the license plates are Washington plates.

 

It depends on your seller. If your seller is a local train nut who is buying and selling to flesh out their collection like the rest of us, aka a hobbyist, and they keep their train income under $2500 [maximum ammount in AZ last I knew], they do not have to file taxes on their train sales UNLESS they own a line of business that sells trains/toys/antiques/other collectibles. This person does not have a business license, nor any other business claims, which allows them to sell as they do.

Your merchants and Vendors however, are at the swapmeet to increase their professional business revenue. They have business licenses and other such certificates. They make more then the minimal amount to still be regarded as purely "hobbyist" and they have to pay taxes on ALL of their sales.

A little side note, Watch out for ebay sales - if you sell more then $2500 on ebay in a year, you owe sales tax to your state.

 

Jantzen Beach Mall's parking lot is full of Washington cars and downtown Vancouver is a ghost town. The sales tax is the reason I don't buy anything in Washington. The sales tax is just short of 10% in the Seattle Tacoma area and 7.8% elsewhere.
Several of our club members who live in Washington have things shipped to my address to avoid sales tax.

 

What can somebody expect to find at a train show. You see I have never been to one, and really don't know what to expect. The show that is happening this weekend is the World's Greatest Hobby Show, and they are going to be in Sacramento, CA. So after reading all the comments, I wonder if it is worth my time to drive up there?

Steve

 

The Worlds Greatest Hobby show is a chance to see the manufacturers directly. Usually a train show has some local vendors and layouts. The WGH show has booths with the likes of Atlas Walthers Woodland Scenics Kadee and so on there. I went to the WGH show in Portland last year with our club layout and it was great to be able to talk to the reps from the industry.
It would be worth the trip but plan to spend the day to really see it all. Once through won't be enough as you will find something you missed on the second time through.

 

Train Shows!

I started going to the GATS train shows in Houston, Texas in the early 1990's. Would take my children to the shows, twice a year if I remembered the dates. Was a great time. This was just before Thomas the Tank Engine came into popularity.

I have since moved to NW Atlanta where trainshows are somewhat of a joke. I did get a chance to go to the big Trainshow here last year. It was promoted fairly well. Had a chance to visit with the manufacturers. Alot of nice items coming out. Had alot of the usual vendors seen at the big shows too. I brought my 12 year old son who is somewhat into trains.

My son and I were very upset with this show even though it was filled with good. The problem we had was moving thru the massive crowds of young families/grandma-grandpa's who brought their little kids/grandkids JUST TO PLAY WITH THOMAS. The I would say that 75% of the people there were not interested in model trains but wanted their kids to play with the huge Thomas wooden train/track area. Then their was the vendors who sold NO model trains, just Thomas crap. Ugh!!!!!!

I will be very careful getting excited again about any Huge Train Shows coming to town again.... Might have to bribe my son with $$$$$$ in going with me too, cause that is the only way he will go with me.

I have nothing against Thomas, actually like the stuff, BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hobo Tim

 

I've never been to a WGH show, but the shows I have seen are generally made up of: 1) a number of display layouts - can range from simple portable setups to very large modular layouts. Usually put up by local clubs.
2) stuff for sale - tables where vendors have new and/or used model railroad equipment for sale. Could be hobby shops, more often they belong to vendors who make a small business of following the shows around and selling stuff, could be the local club or guy who wants to sell off some stuff, could be the vendors of railroad memorabilia. What's available will vary widely depending on the show.

Manufacturers often have display booths set up at the bigger shows (like the national conventions and the WGH shows)

Some shows have a few "How-To" clinics available.

Not sure how far a drive it is, but I think it's worth while to see one, especially if you've never been to a show before. You won't go in jaded because of all the better shows you've been to in the past. I think it's just fun to walk around in a large arena completely surrounded by model railroad items, even if I'm not personally interested in all of them.

Regards

Ed

 

One deal in a sea of over priced commonly available stuff.

Can't possibly disagree with you more
Maybe there are some lamebrains out there collecting Tyco, but I didn't see any. I saw parents buying stuff for their kids at inflated prices. As for Athearn, almost their entire line is still available new, so it's not collectible at all in any way, so your comparison falls down. Further, they're selling overstock, Items that aren't selling, stuff that's been gathering dust on the shelves. If it didn't sell on the shelves, what makes them think it's going to sell at the show?
In any case, my complaint was the glut of new in box stuff that can be had cheaper through other vendors.

I don't think anyone here misunderstands taxes. I think we're expecting it to be included in the price.

Yes, clearly our complaints should not be heard. Better to reduce the attendance, because that will really increase the likelyhood of vendors showing up.

And for the record, I was there when the rope dropped at the Del Mar show. There were a couple sub-$30 deals, but not many. Personally, I would never pay more then $20 for just a frame and motor no shell.

 

Wow! I see a lot of different opinions here. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but this a hobby for most of us, right? Isn't a hobby is supposed to be fun and to do in your spare time? Last time I checked it was.

I went to the Greenberg's show in Aston last month with my wife. For $19 ($7 to get in times 2 and $5 to park) we got to spend a few hours together looking at all the different items available and the few running layouts they had. I ended up getting a few nice Athearn kits for me to put together eventually, but nothing over the top. But we enjoyed the show and each others company and learned more about one another because we saw something that reminded us of something and told the story. Now the show really isn't what it was years ago, but then again, how many LHS' are still in business around you? They are disappearing.

These shows are what they are, a show. Go and enjoy it. Hell, $19 is what it costs to get two people into a movie. At least at a train show, you can use your imagination and remeber some great great memories and create new ones.

Just my $0.02.

'Nut

 

Only $19 to get 2 into the movies? must be nice.

Anyway, that's my point, it wasn't as fun for me as I was expecting and I voiced my opinions about why. It's supposed to be fun sure, but that doesn't mean just grin and bare it either.

 

I'm not into that stuff. The bargain mechanisms. However, like I said before I grew up with Lionel, and my early experiences with train shows, that's what we looked for.

I agree this hobby should be fun, and all this negative talk makes me wanna puke. I like train shows in general. It's just a fact that 75% of the time, they are dissapointing. It's all a matter of if there's something I like and something I dont.

I'm just glad I'll never have to see you at a train show.

 

Do they do this Anywhere Else??? Supermarkets? Walmart? your Local Hobby Shop?

NO! So why EXPECT it ANYWHERE ELSE???

I don't see anyone buying Much Lionel either, and yet it shows up agian and again too, whole tables of it, for miles and miles. You ask the general population who the most popular train maker is, and they will still tell you "Tyco - but they do't make trains anymore - cause trains aren't made anymore."

But thats the collectors for you, I have never understood it but I certainly don't lose sleep over these gus. Let them collect the stuff we scorn!

The old Athrean Stuff varies greatly from run to run, my club recieved a State of Maine Potatoes boxcar collection from a member when he passed on, there were no less then 15 cars in there, all the same road number, but every single car had a different shade of factory red/blue on it. basically, thought he cars are still being produced, the old stock is OOP, so for the people who collect these thing, shows are great - though ebay is far better.

Im not a collector, so I'm not buying the Athearn stuff either. I have all the basic rolling stock I need, so I have been buying very few new cars these days.

You're complaining about new in the box glut stuff at the show. Why do you think they DID NOT bring all the rare High in demand stuff? MAybe cause it ALREADY SOLD IN THE STORE!!

And why on earth would a vendor sell some thing at a bargin price when they can get full list??

That's just it, as we get older in this hobby, our tastes evolve towards higher standards. Unfortunately, this means you're also going to be disappointed more often then not anyhere you go.

Be glad, I'm usually carrying a box or two and usually loaded high with stuff you normally Don't see glutting up the shows. Mind you, I'm picking it up at killer prices nowadays because I'm quick on the good stuff and the bad stuff, nobody wants it and the vendors are tired of carrying it. Once I get home, if I decide later I don't want it, I flop it over onto Ebay. I did that with the string of Athearn Icebox reefers I got for 3 bucks each with kadees, sold them for a nice little line too. I'm keeping the Accurail cars though, still got them for 3 bucks a car!!!

Last show I picked up a nice Tyco 2-8-0 for 8 bucks, you laugh and scff but these are selling for as much as 20 on ebay plus shoipping on a bad day and I have been trying to find one there now for a couple of months so I can use the frame/drivers for another project [ a roundhouse 2-8-0 shell, worst mechanism to try to get working], who ever knew Tyco put a Good Mechanism under the locomotive!! A little cutting and I will be installing a gear on the second axle, shoehorning in a gearhead, and powering the little sucker!

I feel that the negative feelings towards shows are from those peope who have tempered themselves to only accepting very high modeling standards and getting most of their stuff rtr in the box. These same people are very skilled at finding all the best deals on the interent, and further highly educated on how much everything costs.

I have to ask these people if they would be happy selling off their lots of stuff at 25% of what they paid for it and then ask them why they expect show vendors to be happy doing the same.

Shows are the ultimate Salad bar. Good Luck!!!

 

My father took me to wood working shows for my entire childhood. Twice a year. It's typical of a "show" that taxes are included in sale sale price though not universal.
Similarly at the Del Mar Fair, many of the dealers included taxes in the price. It happens all over the place. And in fact, it's quite often a sales tactic for retail establishments, car dealerships and the like. Just like no payments for a year financing and other sales hooks.

I saw Lionel and American Flyer stuff being sold. The collector market is a different kettle of fish.
I've never heard anyone in the general population refer to tyco and I've never heard anyone say trains aren't made anymore. In fact, there's been an increase in the quantity and quality of sets available recently, but that's a different discussion.

Again, I've not encountered anyone buy Athearn for collectible purposes except perhaps old rubberband drive engines.

I complain about the glut of product, because they are selling it at full price. They aren't selling it at a bargain. If they were selling it at a bargain, then I wouldn't complain. And they weren't selling any of it. Nobody was buying. I was questioning their business model which doesn't make any sense to me at all especially given the expense they are paying for that booth.

this is exactly what I'm saying I'm not seeing at the shows. 3 bucks a car isn't bad, but when it's new in box for $5.25 probably $3.25 when the car was originally purchased?

Ebay is filled with morons whether in the collectible market, the PC market, basically 90% of the people on EBay seem to relish paying too much for everything.
I think $8 is a great deal for a steam engine, even a Tyco. That's a lot of modification effort though for something that's supposed to be a good mechanism.

Well, I'm the one that started this thread and you're pretty much dead wrong. I made it clear what I was trying to find and wasn't there. Being educated about how much stuff costs and being skilled at finding good deals on the internet is called being a smart consumer. If that's hurting show vendors, then they deserve to be hurt for not being smart vendors.

It's not my job to care how much they paid for it. I set how much I'm willing to pay for it. They meet that price, or they don't get the sale. Period. I have a local hobby shop that I have a much better relationship with. They see me regularly, they know what I'm looking for and what I'm trying to do. They get my full price new product business. I go to the show looking for deals. Sounds like you do too.

The difference is you are satisfied and I am not.

 

Well, I don't tie up all that much of my hobby enjoyment into train shows, but I'm blessed to live among excellent clubs (SDMRRM) and excellent LHS.
And don't get me wrong, I wouldn't pay the $7 plus parking if I wasn't enjoying myself, but I didn't give up my right to nit pick either.

 

I see differences of opinion here.

I figure train shows are a bit of a crap shoot, too. I go expecting very little and that way I get something out of them. The best thing I usually get is that I will find somebody with a modeling technique I want to know more about so I will ask him/her about it and I also do a little bit of networking at these things.

I can't get worked up about silly people buying junk at inflated prices as long as there is a willing buyer and a willing seller.

Adam

 

It is a forty five minute drive. I was thinking that if I went that I would be spending all day just looking and seeing what was there.