Train shows, a constant disappointment

you expect them to pay for booth space(around $200-300 for major shows), gas($3.00/gal for large low MPG van), food, and hotel($50 or more per night), to bring the product in to you, and then reduce their profit margin?
the average vendor is around $1000 in the hole before the show even opens, and hast sell $3000 or more in product just to get back to even.

Not charging sale tax is a violation of the law and will cause the loss of business license, fines, and possible jail time.
I for one am not willing to lose my job so you can save 75 cents on a boxcar.

for me a section under construction sparks a conversation with the members as to their plans for it, will they be having any clinics, what ballasting technique will they use, how they will do the river,....also many club show layouts live in a trailer on a storage lot, and can only be set up and worked on at shows.
most clubs have members of all ages, exeperiences, and skill levels, not everone has a vast kato loco roster, or is a master modeller, but they all share a huge intrest in model railroading.

 

We've had discussions about the trials and tribulations of LHS owners And I don't know that there's more to be said about it, but my feelings about LHS apply to Vendors at Train shows. And it can be summed up as the worlds smallest violin playing for them. Poor vendors with their big expenses. If they aren't making enough to survive, then don't go. As was discussed earlier, we all go to Train shows for different reasons. For those who don't have easy access to a local hobby shop and don't want to shop online, then those full price vendors offer a service and I'm fine with that to a point, But I'm under no obligation to buy your product if I don't want to either.
If it wasn't selling in the store at that price, then it's a fair bet it won't sell at the show at that price. An Athearn GP35 that's been on your shell for 15 years isn't worth the price on the box, don't insult me with that price.

In the shows I've been to, I never see these guys sell much. So again, as a consumer, I've a right to set my price or walk away the seller's costs are not my concern and if the vendor is not going to be in tune with my desires, well then I'll hardly suffer if they stop showing up.

As for taxes, Obviously, by law they must charge it (man I miss Oregon), but the smart ones include it in their prices, or eat the cost knowing they could make it back in sales. We'll pay the sales tax is a common tactic in the retail world.

LHS rarely have sales in my experience (which is a shame, because if they had after Christmas deals....) I think of the show as a sale and I expect things priced accordingly. I also expect common sales tactics like loss leaders and such.

As for the quality of the layouts, I can't say as I've seen N-scale be any better or worse then HO, but I will say that in general, I don't think I've seen a modular railroad that truely was as well done as some of the permanent layouts I've seen. This is not a judgment on the skills of the modelers. I'm not master modeller myself and thus am not in a position to judge, but I just have yet to see one that grabbed me.
One of the problems is that most modules seems to be busy scenes with rare and unique items.
If Modular railroads were a true representation of the real world, then every 10 miles there would be a carnaval and a vintage airport along the tracks. The modelling is often excellent, but just not compelling to me.

And don't get me started about unrealistic trains. I realize that people usually just bring what they want, but it destroys the illusion to have a Dash 9 pulling a string of PFE reefers. And for that matter, why are their so many trains with just one diesel on point? Have you never seen an actual railroad in real life?

But that griping is for a different subject not specific to train shows and I expect could start an argument.

 

I enjoy going to train shows. Granted, a lot of the merchandise and vendors are the same each time I visit, but I always find something there that I either a) can't get anywhere else or b) don't have the time or patience to find anywhere else.

I typically stay away from the models, as most of the boxed stuff I can find elsewhere for the same price. And if the models are old, they're usually junk.

The things I like are photos, magazines, books, videos/DVDs, and memorabilia. It's items such as these that keep me going back.

As far as the train displays; I would have to say that they're always the same below average layouts every time. Typically there's an S scale club that's been around for as long as I can remember (30 years) that has the same exact display. The modular N scale layout is a disappointment due to that there's hardly any scenery to speak of. And as far as HO, well there's never an HO layout, because the politics between clubs and it's members in my hometown has fragmented everyone to the point that there isn't even a group to show a display. To me, this is the biggest crime.

 

So all those years of finding a 20 dollar lionel steam engine in a junk box being sold by guys who's wifes are making them sell their trains, and not paying 20.75 were breaking the law?

I don't mind un finished layouts, and I wasn't really trying to bash the module layouts that I've seen and didn't like. I said it really wasn't an indication of the club's model skills, I just don't wanna see the same layout with the same progress which isn't much every week. And oh yea, I know, you don't have to look at it........

I'm such a mean guy. I know. How do I have any friends.

 

Again, I'm not trying to be a scrooge, but there's so much modeling talent out there, for scenery and what not, which is a huge part of what I look for in a good realistic layout. But one thing, the layout builders don't usually seem to get right is the operation. For instance, stopping and start real fast and jerky. And having a large freight train wizzing down the tracks at top speed. Stuff like this just puzzles me when it's obvious the clubs goal is realism.

 

You're right, so many Modular layouts just seem to be tinplate in concept. I want to see Model railroading on model railroads.

 

Granted it's a matter of taste. And what you want to see. It just seems sometimes that the operators don't care. Why go so far to make everything else look real, and then operate the trains like a toy??

 

Not to get off the beaten path, but I get to shows 15 min before they open and get in line when the doors open. Take a look around is the median age of people attending 50 years and over smelling of old spice? Or am I just getting there to early? maybe the young train enthusiest don't like getting up early and come late in the afternoon? I've most likily seen it and done it by noon?

 

Careful now, I fit ONE of those criterion.

Route 66, that observation made me chuckle because I have stood in line EARLY on the first morning several shows and found that true.

 

I've been to shows where the only purchase I made was the entrance fee. Then there was the show where I bought a large box of PRB lightweights and heavyweights, almost every ATSF car imported by PRB. So you never know.



Ben

 

Well, the kids usually don't start coming in till around noon as I've seen. Usually cause the parents have other things to do.

50 year olds and up do abound. I suspect that most of the younger crowd tends to use the internet more, because I'll see them working the display layouts and at hobby shops and such, but rarely in attendence.

 

It's simply that the very "nature" of model railroading shows began changing about 15 years back and for the last 10 has been mainly as you have described.

I recall shows I attended back in the 70's and 80's. They were where the average hobbyist went to get bargins. New stuff was often 25-30% off retail and older/second-hand rolling stock items were often just a couple of bucks.

Likewise, it apparently was a time when many older hobbyists were packing it in, or the result of estate sales, but one saw enormous volumes of unique and rare items offered at a song. I recall several Timonium, MD, shows where you could literally purchase at least one of everything ever manufactured in HO since the 1950's! By the early 90's this was over and prices out-distanced those of the LHS. In much of the Northeast this has resulted in many long-running shows closing their doors for good, as attendance declined from a lack of good buys.

Venues such as eBay have largely replace train shows, as far as I can see. For the astute buyer there are many good buys and the cross section of items on any given day is 20x what even the largest shows have to offer.

NYW&B

 

I agree they do get boring after a while. All the same display layouts as last time, same vendors, same prices...

I do find deals. I probably won't find a deal on the latest Kato loco. I have found deals on things that just weren't selling in stores.

I have to say that some dealers, have racks and racks of N scale cars in jewel boxes that are so scratched up they look like fogged glass. They must lug them around for years. I can't agree to pay full price for that.

In denver, the guy to visit is the N scale supply table. He always has deals on things. I bought grain cars for 2 dollars. A Atlas c55 switch for 2 bucks. etc. Unfortunately he does not travel to other cities for health reasons.

Another trick is to go to O scale tinplate meets. Since I do not do O scale very much, It's all new and exciting to see the O scale stuff, especially all the weird 3 rail collectors items. O scalers have little interest in the other scales, but there is always a vendor who has some smaller stuff on sale. They also have lots of memorabilia and odds and ends. I bought a round hatch from a diesel engines MU hose plug at one show. It's an oddball item with a EMD logo on it. I like stuff like that.

 

One of the reasons I'm dissapointed with some train shows is the large amount of dealers and buyers into collecting old Lionel pieces. Now I grew up in this class, but as I got older moved to more scale items.

On a side note, don't you hate it when you're waiting for that long train to come buy you on one of the display layouts, and some kid comes and pushes you out of the way?

 

I remember as a kid going and watching trains on the big layout at the Chicago Science Museum. I enjoy displaying at the shows and watching the kids excitement at the large trains and layouts. Not many people can run 100 car trains at home!

 

Those were the days, without a doubt!

 

There is a really good show The Great Lehigh valley Train meet in Allentown Pa.
info www.lehighvalleytrainmeet.com Have gotten some good deals in the past. Plus Free Parking. Coming in 2 weeks. Plus there is a Bid board there also which sells trains.

 

I have plans to go to the meet in Maryland in Feb.

Does anyone know the deal with the York meet? You have to be in a club?

 

I don't get it....

You found two bargin basement Mantua mechanisms, and you're still complaining about not finding anythng??

Face it, Tyco IS the HO version of Lionel. That means you will see ridiculous prices on that junk and it will be getting higher as the years move by. The same will be going for the Athearn Stuff. If you haven't noticed, Craftsman Kits now sell for 20-49 bucks. So asking for 6-10 on an athearn car is Not out of line. If you don't want it, don't buy it!!

Some of you do not seem to understand taxes. Vendors and Merchants MUST charge tax; if the person selling the stuff is charging tax, that means they are paying taxes on their sales. They are not there as the little old lady with a chest that needs to be cleaned out. They are in a Much Different situation. If you don't like the extra dollar added by the tax, Don't buy it!!

For the rest of you, if you don't like it, stop coming. The less of you gripers that show up and pick up 30 dollar bargin mechanisms, the more bargins I will have to pack home with me. Mind you I get to the show when teh doors open - and I see the holes appear on the tables FAST. It's Natural Selection out there, you gotta be fast!!!