MarkW, I need to be careful I'm replying here to more then one Mark. Yes, maybe and no. I need to take a moment to give it a read. Ok, I'm back and I think the answer is Yes, Yes, Yes! I bookmarked this website and will refer back to it...often, I'm sure. Guys and Gals don't get to awfully mad at me if you already suggested this website. I'm multi-tasking to get a number of things done. The websites that have been recommended have required reading beyond my time allotment, to sit down and absorb it. Two of the sites I printed out and ended up using 100 pages and most of my ink. Not a good thing. I'm busy beyond belief...for an old gray beard. Rebuilding a churches sound system and that's no easy chore. No doubt, if these are the CV...Range and Factory settings as indicated, then the answer is Yes. Now then I need to know which way to go to either increase or decrease the desired action and/or performance. See example I gave. I suspect if I move about in the range indicated...that's it? Yes...No? I may be a little slow at catching on so bear with me...grin. What is a bit/bite/byte regarding CV29? I hope my confusion is clear enough. .
That is precisely what the table shows. I think text "A higher value leads to a slower acceleration" is easier to comprehend which way to adjust the CV than a visual chart would be. But for speed tables and such, a graph chart would surely work. I'm not exactly sure myself, but I think that's part of the process on those complex CVs like CV29. Each bit is part of the overall value. Depending on the configuration, the value dictates an arbitrary settings. I've seen better tables for such CVs though. Also, I dont know if it was suggested here, but I got the majority of my intro DCC knowledge from reading "The Big Book of DCC" from Digitrax. It explains in detail many ways to adjust decoder settings and includes many great visual charts. For even being about 10 years old (I think), I still refer to it from time to time.
Rick, here's a some web sites that have a lot of good, get right to the heart of the matter, info on model RR DCC, listed in the order that may help you. Mark Gurrie's clinics on DCC, starts right from the basics and goes up from there: Silicon Valley Lines: DCC Presentations Marcus Amman's DCC web page of information: DCC Articles, Mods and Notes Another great web site: DCC INFO ADVICE And you can see all of my DCC bookmarks at the following Social Bookmarking site: atsf_arizona's dcc Bookmarks on Delicious I hope this helps. The internet is a amazing place. Info at our fingertips... if only we know where to find it...
Here's a great explanation of CV29 on the Digitrax website complete with some excellent tables for reference. The bits are individual settings that can be turned on or off depending on the overall value you set the CV to. CV29 is easy to comprehend once you understand it, and at that point all you need to refer to is either the "addition table" (the method I prefer) or the"look up table". The problem though is that with out that initial comprehension, the tables are pretty much useless.
Oh, my favorite DCC book (there are many, just my favorite): The DCC Guide, by Don Fiehmann | Tony's Tips at Tony's Train Exchange. This is a very recent book, within the past 2 or 3 years it was published. Hope this helps.
I don't know Mark, 10 years old went by a mighty long time ago. Grin! My grandson would no doubt be able to configure this while I was still sitting on the ....well...you know. I will bookmark it and then get started with my homework. Do you guys and gals give out grades or some sort of graduation ceremony if I manage to master this? I do have a early Kalmbach, DCC Book, (I call it DCC for Idiots, way over simplified and says nothing about setting CV's) a beginners book. I read it through until the lingo turned to a language I didn't understand. I will go to the last chapter and see if it makes better sense. I don't know if you have seen what is going on in the field of sound systems but the lingo is off the charts there, as well. Nothing is as simple as it used to be.eek:
Back to doing my homework. What chapter should I read? Arizona, This will be a big help as well. Thanks!cute: I did bookmark the resources you provided in a previous post. I should be able to find my way home with all the directions and instructions.
To a conclusion...for now. Here is an example, sort of, what I've been looking for...see page 2, Table #1. May I suggest? The previous examples posted by both Mark Watson and MarkWR come closer to what I'm looking for. http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/standards_rps/RP-9.2.2%202007%20July.pdf This Table #1, didn't make any sense to me when I viewed it the first time around and it clearly doesn't have what I'm looking for. Downside to this table or flow chart is they don't give you the range so you can't determine the numerical value to submit. They leave you guessing...back to square one. I did find the one for my MRC Prodigy. It's embedded deep in the PDF files. Same story. It too, is incomplete. I really don't know how anyone could miss the obvious and yet they managed. Once again thanks for all your help. Ahh, this is it for me... for now. You guys and gals can keep going I've got to drop out. I've got some full days ahead of me. Till later.
Crikey, if you are wading through stuff like that I don't wonder you are confused. Watching TV is simple, tuning the TV and setting the preferences is a bit harder, understanding the digital TV specification is hard. That page falls in the last category I tend to work on the 'KISS' principle. I reset a decoder to defaults, set up the long address and enable it, turn the volume down (they always come set to max ) and for most locos set momentum to suit my preference. Then I run it and only make other changes if I feel the operation is unacceptably off from my needs/desires. I certainly don't need a flow chart As to range, you need to realise that not all makers use the same ranges for all CVs (except those that are bolted down by the NMRA specs). A lot will be 0-255, which is the most a single CV can handle, but for example some sound settings on an MRC decoder I had were 1-4. On a more general point about values, particularly speed settings, the performance of the basic loco mechanism can vary not just from make to model to individual unit, but the same unit may behave differently with use. This could be long term, as it breaks in and wears out, or short term as it warms up / cools down during an operating session.
Rick, an example of a flow chart - Change the fields to suit whether you want the front forward or back forward, if you want it to go faster or slower, etc. Admittedly, the above example would better suit layout design and building!
Background: My 6 year old granddaughter has a DS hand held game system as well as a laptop. She has taught her 3 year old brother to use both and he can not read (yet). Their Mother (my daughter) is a teacher. I have decided that when or if it comes time to go DCC I will have one or both of them put it all together and program everything. LOL Rick, you wouldn't happen to have a grandchild who can help. LOL That is not to say you are not able to do this but this new generation are trained from the crib.
Bruce, Shoot, my grandson, three granddaughters, niece and her three children would have me wired up and running with the correct numerical CV's installed in less time then it takes me to read a magazine while sitting on the throne. Maybe that's the problem...ahh....think about it. LOL
bits, bytes and CV29 Bits and bytes are used to specify how computers store data. A bit the smallest piece of data that can be stored. Bits are either a 0 or 1. In fact all data is stored in a computer as a pattern of zeros and ones. A byte is eight bits grouped together. If you look at eight bits grouped together you can get values from 00000000 to 11111111. This is a base two representation. Just like the base ten numbers we normally use, the digit positions in base two numbers present different powers of two. In base ten 123 equals (1*100)+(2*10)+3. In base 2 the number 11111111 would be equal to (1*128) + (1*64) + (1*32) + (1*16) + (1*8) + (1*4) + (1*2) + (1*1) or 255 in base ten. The CVs used for DCC values are stored as bytes. So each CV can store a decimal value from 0 to 255. Note that not all values are valid in every CV. CV 1 has a range from 0-127 and CVs 2 through 6 have a range from 0-255. What's actually stored in the decoder's memory is 00000000 through 11111111. Where CV 1 uses all eight bits to contain one piece of information, the short address. CV 29 uses its eight bits individually to represent eight separate pieces of information. Bit 0[1] contains the direction bit, 0 = normal, 1=reverse (the loco moves in reverse when it should be going forward). Bit 1[2] is the speed steps 0=14 steps, 1=28 or 128 steps. Bit 2[4] selects digital only operation or allows operation with analog voltage. Bit 3[8] Lenz uses this bit to turn on Railcom but I don't think all decoders use this Bit 4[16] custom speed table enable Bit 5[32] extended address enable Bit 6[64] reserved, not currently used Bit 7[128] 0 for mobile decoder, 1 for accessory decoder The values I put in brackets are the base ten equivalents of the bit position, so if we had a locomotive decoder with normal direction, 28 speed steps, digital only operation, internal speed table and short addressing - only bit 1 would be set to a 1 so the decimal number we would put in CV 29 would be "2". If we had a locomotive using long addressing, a custom speed table and the motor wires had been hooked up backwards we would set bits 0,1,4 and 5. The value we would load in CV 29 would be (1+2+16+32) or 51. Hopefully this helps. When I was in high school a long long time ago a teacher spent several days trying to explain base two math, so this short explanation may not actually explain it.
I just found an interesting website that calculates CV29. http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29 calculator.htm If you play with it a bit it may help to understand what I was trying to explain before.
I wrote down the basic steps I use to set up a decoder. It's not the only way to do it, just what works for me. Note that I didn't try to explain speed tables as each brand of decoder seems to implement this differently and I haven't found the need to use speed tables yet. Also not all decoders use CV 5 and 6. Setting up decoder CVs for use without custom speed table: 1) Decide if you're using short or long addressing and what address to use. Address programming needs to be done on the programming track. i) short address - set address in CV1 and make sure CV 29 bit 5 is 0 ii) long address - set address in CV17&18 and make sure CV29 bit 5 is 1 2) Turn speed table usage off by setting CV 29 bit 4 to 0. If you use a speed table the values in CV2, CV3, CV4, CV5 and CV6 are not used. 3) Set Vstart - with loco on main track use throttle to set speed to step 1. If locomotive doesn't move increase value in CV2. If locomotive moves to fast at speed step 1 lower value in CV2. A higher value increases the power applied at speed step 1. Normally CV 2 should be set for the lowest value that the locomotive will reliably start when the throttle is set to speed step 1. 4) Set maximum speed – use throttle to set locomotive to its maximum speed. If the locomotives maximum speed is higher then you want decrease the value in CV 5. If the maximum speed is slower then you want increase the value in CV 5. Default value is usually 255. The higher the value in CV 5 the faster the locomotive runs, the range is 0-255 5) Set middle speed – set the throttle to the middle of it’s range. If you feel the engine runs to fast at this speed setting decrease the value in CV 6. If the locomotive runs to slow with the throttle in the middle of its range increase the value in CV 6. The range for CV 6 is 0-255. Default values seem to be between 45 and 75. Higher values yield faster mid throttle speeds. 6) Acceleration - with loco on main track and stopped set speed step to maximum and observe acceleration. If loco accelerates to fast for your taste increase value in CV3. If acceleration is to slow, decrease value in CV3. The higher the value in CV3 the slower the locomotive accelerates. 7) Braking delay – with the locomotive on the main track and running set the speed to zero and observe how fast the train slows to a stop. If the locomotive stops to fast increase the value in CV 4. If the engine takes to long to slow to a stop decrease the value in CV 4. The higher the value in CV 4 the longer it takes for the locomotive to come to a stop. This value does not affect the emergency stop function. 8) Operate the locomotive and see if you’re happy with the throttle response. If it accelerates to fast or it’s maximum speed is unrealistic try fine tuning the parameters listed above.
Gosh, MarkWR You've been working overtime. You got me reading and absorbing. May I transfer some of this over to a new thread? Numerical Values, DCC, Flow Charts Or Tables - TrainBoard.com Thanks and this is precisely what I was hoping, those in the know would share.
Rick, Here is a sample of the major CV's and the values they may have. In this case, I used the frist locomotives I pulled out of the box and read back. Kato EMD SD-70M Locomotive Address = 9800 decoder model= DN163K1B family= Series 3 with FX3, silent, readback dcc loco address number="9800" is a long address (save for later) CV1 Short Address (2 Digits) value = 3 CV2 Start Volts = 0 CV3 Acceleration Rate = 8 CV4 Deceleration Rate = 8 CV5 Max Volts = 0 (These are 0 because the speed tables are being used) CV6 Mid Volts = 0 CV7 Version ID = 51 CV8 Manufacturer ID = 129 (Digitrax) CV9 Motor Drive Frequency = 0 (Adjusts the frequency of the DC pulses to reduce motor noise) CV17 Long 4 Digit Address = 230 (Value usually calculated by the controller) CV18 Long 4 Digit Address = 72 (Value usually calculated by the controller) CV19 Advanced Consist address = 0 CV20 Advanced Consist direction = 0 CV29 Configuration Register CV29.1 Normal direction of motion 0 CV29.2 Speed steps 28/128 2 CV29.3 Analog conversion mode 0 CV29.4 Use Speed Table On 16 CV29.5 Addressing Mode Long Address 32 Adds up to 50 CV55 Solo operation droop compensation for speed stabilization = 6 CV56 Advanced consist droop compensation for speed stabilization = 0 CV57 Speed Compensation Control = 0 (BEMF Settings) CV65 Kick Start = 2 CV66 Forward Trim = 84 Speed Table CV's Values CV67 Step 1 0 CV68 Step 2 15 CV69 Step 3 28 CV70 Step 4 41 CV71 Step 5 52 CV72 Step 6 61 CV73 Step 7 70 CV74 Step 8 78 CV75 Step 9 86 CV76 Step 10 92 CV77 Step 11 98 CV78 Step 12 103 CV79 Step 13 108 CV80 Step 14 112 CV81 Step 15 116 CV82 Step 16 120 CV83 Step 17 123 CV84 Step 18 126 CV85 Step 19 128 CV86 Step 20 130 CV87 Step 21 132 CV88 Step 22 134 CV89 Step 23 136 CV90 Step 24 137 CV91 Step 25 169 CV92 Step 26 140 CV93 Step 27 141 CV94 Step 28 142 CV95 Reverse Trim = 84 I thought a fully published example to look at is about as good as a flow chart. Rick - send me an e-mail and I can send you the properly formatted text version.
Dave aka DCESharkman, You are hitting the nail on the head. You wrote: "I thought a fully published example to look at is about as good as a flow chart". I couldn't agree more. MarkWR, Nailing it...precisely what I'm looking for. Now we can begin to move ahead. To All, I best not let you guys and gals down on this one. In a way my work is almost done. Just having this information posted here will help those newbies and/or some of us simplites (we like to keep things simple) give us a starting point or jumping off place. Now we can get busy setting our CV's and tinkering with them. I can't thank-you enough. Mark Watson, Respectfully requesting we make copies and move the information provided here by MarkWR and Dave aka DCESharkman to: Numerical Values, DCC, Flow Charts Or Tables - TrainBoard.com Starting with, "Bits, bytes and CV 29 by MarkWR. If that be possible. .
