Objections - Complexity of DCC

John,

Yes we would like to get together with you. We can work out the details on PM.

Thanks.

 

Rick,

You should have contacted me before this thread, I could have helped you through your issues in a heartbeat!

You know how to get a hold of me...........

 

I jumped head first into DCC never having had any model train experience. I feel very accomplished now knowing that I speed matched a Digitrax DH123D with a Tsunami GN1000 in about 8 hours with a Digitrax 402 throttle and a Super Empire Builder.

Hope you get your problems solved soon.

 

How time flies when you're having fun

 

Not a big deal. This is what happens when you go from the Analog Age, DC, to the Digital Age, DCC. Not to worry. DCC is continually evolving. You just adjust and go with the flow. I have been around seventy years so I have a little experience.
Change is inevitable, struggle is one of the options.


Rich

 

John Paulson is giving you very good advise. I read through all the DCC user manuals and demo's a few systems at shows and on home layouts. I purchased the NCE Pro Cab. The user manual is excellent, with easy to follow instructions and flow charts for multiple step instructions. Programming a new loco, consisting etc, is easy. The hand control is beautifully designed, with nice sized buttons, logically organized. The screen is large and easy to read.
All the math mumbo jumbo you are worried about isn't an issue with the NCE system.

Buy NCE and you won't look back.

Regards, Keith.

 

I have had my DCS 50 all of one week. I am also a computer programmer, and interface specialist for the Navy before I retired. I am one of those electronic technicians that got tired of fixing everyone's computers that weren't broke. I took some courses in programming and found a whole new world.

I got bit straight from the git go. I didn't notice that, my engines were not isolated from the chassis. One ruined 2 Dh123D's before I figured out what was happening. We all learn as we go along. I use the KISS Principal until I Learn what I need to do. I have programed 2 of my engines with numbers, and acceleration. For right now that is good. I am also building my new layout and need to spend what time I have on that. So for now I will skip more than that until I can get my nose really into the books. :tb-biggrin::tb-biggrin:

 

Hello All. This is my first post and I would like to say to all no matter what your understanding of DCC or any other technology is with a little research and help from friends we all can learn. I got my masters in electronics over 35 years ago, pre PC days and started working on main frame computers when the bottom dropped out of the industry. I turned to truck driving and aquired over 4 million miles of experience. I still have friends brining me thier computers for repair after I decided that even though I had no training on them I found with a little research I could fix most of them. After getting back into model railroading I jumped into DCC with a Digitraks Super Chief and had a few problems, but with very little help was able to figure it out and after finding several forums on DCC it got very easy to understand, remember there is help out there. I also use JMRI whenever possible and for those that have a problem with hex it is a godsend, Just don't give up, it really is easy to work with DO NOT let the technology intimidate you. Also never forget "it really is part magic". and like me you can become a "Mercenary in the War Between Technology & Magic." it really is fun.

 

Renegade,

First, welcome to TrainBoard!

Second, good points all. Three years ago I knew virtually nothing about DCC except that I wanted to start a new layout and I liked the idea of having the ability to run locomotives in a more prototypical manner without loads of toggle switches.

I eventually bought a Zephyr. Most of what I have learned since I have really only learned by experimenting with that Zephyr. I go read the books and ask questions when I need a little more information. I have since learned the basics of DecoderPro on JMRI, and I hope to have a JMRI setup at the club soon (we've got two members with old laptops, and someone will soon be bringing one in... I hope).

Despite all the "book learning" I have done, I believe that there are a lot of tasks that can be learned more completely by doing them, and I believe that DCC is one of those.

Best of luck to all in their chosen technology!

Adam

 

Renegade, welcome to TrainBoard and this discussion.

You are so right.

Bob, PSG1790 a good friend of mine had me setting my CV's in two easy sentences. Here's what I do....and examples of how he set up his CV's.

Also Terry, in a PM had me resetting the unit he sold me.

David, John and others have contributed to helping me. It is all appreciated.

You are absolutely right about having friends that can help.

What I wish we had and maybe you can help, is a flow chart that shows the various CV's and the numbers others have used to set-up various HO and N Scale Decoders.

Then, I stop and reflect on flow charts I created for a different situation, considering the time it took to complete the project. Perhaps, I'm asking for too much.

 

I don't think most realizes how in-depth the CV are.

Example CV9 is the Pulse Width Modulation control. This controls the DC motor based on the frequency and width of the pulses. If you derive CV values by way of formulas and place them in the appropriate locations you can simulate various prototypical results.

Lenz CV51 Constant Stopping Distance is an example where the DC motor needs to be fine tuned to simulate a gradual prototypical stop. You can configure the point in which the train will stop after you hit the brake but the motor has to respond exactly to achieve that smooth transition. A lot of CV are crossed referenced and should be set according to its counter CV which leads to the flow chart request.

Some CV are manufacture specific and has its own cause and effect. Is it easy to get DCC running? Yes. Is is easy to utilize the full capabilities of DCC without reference or guidance. No.

I see Rick's point, the problem is getting "ALL" the data compiled.

Inobu

 

Rick,

The best flow chart is actually JMRI's Decoder Pro. You just go from one tab to the next and program everything you need. You don't want something, then you don't need to worry about it at all. Any complex relationships between CV's are calculated and maintained by DecoderPro for you.

I really can not stress how much easier life programming decoders is. It really allows you to quickly setup up the porgramming and get on the track running in a matter of a few minutes.

Best of all, the program is free, and it does not need a high end computer to run. The only cost /challenge is finding a way to connect the computer to the DCC system. But In believe MRC has produced one for their systems.

 

I have the NCE adapter.

There is a very active jmri group as the software is continually evolving. MAC and Linux versions are available also.



jmriusers : JMRI users

Rich

 

All four of the major DCC vendors (Digitrax, NCE, MRC, Lenz) have computer USB interface modules at prices ranging from $40 for NCE up to $150 for Lenz. There are several 3rd party devices available as well. So yeah, there's a cost, but not much of a challenge.

And you're right, since JMRI will run on a pretty bare-bones computer, it's a wonder more people aren't doing this.

 

Which Rick?

Robert,

I'd love to stop by but I live in Southern California. Not a really easy jump.

Was I the Rick you were referring to? If so, thanks for the invite. Appreciated.wink:

David wrote:

The best flow chart is actually JMRI's Decoder Pro. You just go from one tab to the next and program everything you need. You don't want something, then you don't need to worry about it at all. Any complex relationships between CV's are calculated and maintained by DecoderPro for you. End of quote.

I have a busy day to today. I finally learned how to burn a DVD on my DVD burner. A friend wants a number of his videos copied to DVD's so I will be busy with that.

I will P.M. you for more information. Please feel free to share a web address where the program can be downloaded or uploaded to my computer. This will benefit all of us.

 

Youre right, check out my thread
http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?p=699415&posted=1#post699415

I see only the experts disagree.....they forget how much time and passion has got them there.....

 

I don't know where you found your information. I could go out there and find 5 or 6 testimonials about how DCC is the most wonderful thing ever and how it can even cure cancer but that doesn't make it right, either.

If you are interested in DCC and ease of use, there are much better resources than these examples. Did you go to UnnecessarilyComplexDCCInstructions.com? I have never had to convert between decimal, hexadecimal, and binary for DCC. All the interfaces that I am aware of do that for you now, just like the computer you are using to access the internet.

Does DCC have room for improvement? Yes, but the current state of DCC is not accurately reflected by your quoted sections.

Best,
Adam

 

Well theres definitely two trains of thought in this thread. Im talking wiring, data busses, interface boxes, software, setups and more.
Inobus post is a typical example.

 

This is just one example of what is available. "Data from NCE"

There are various ways the Total Period (CV9) can be played against the
pulse widths of the speed steps (CVs 67-94)
If the locomotive already operates at the desired top speed then
CV94 (speed 28) should be set equal to CV9. This will give full
available power to the motor (speed step 28 pulse width will be
100% of the Total Period) on speed step 28.

If the locomotive runs faster than desired at top speed CV94 can be
set to a number smaller than CV9. This will give less than full
available power to the motor when it reaches speed step 28. Note:
Start Voltage (CV2) is not used with the alternate table, Speed
step 1 should be programmed to the starting voltage.

NCE decoders actually come with two speed tables. The standard speed table is hard coded on the decoder and cannot be edited. The alternate speed table is stored in changeable memory and may be modified to suit different locomotive motor requirements.

"Selection of the total period is a trial and error process for different
types of motors. Some motors respond well to higher frequencies
others to lower frequencies. One motor may "rattle" or buzz at 90Hz
but not at 84Hz.........".

Just a little insight to CV9

Some CV setting values are loaded with"functional" setting not necessarily optimal.

What does this have to do with anything?

I have 5 Katos SD70's NS's and some pull better than others. This means that some of the slower units will be drug up inclines and across the layout loading the faster unit down. This is not optimal performance.

In order to sync the locos you need to adjust the frequency of the pulses which is the basis of the speed table. This is achieved by either creating a formulas or trial and error tuning. Decoder Pro gives you the ability for trial and error editing and precise tuning with an Accutrack but not all of us have that capability.

The OP just points out that if we had a flowchart with precise CV data our DCC experience could be a lot better and I agree.

Inobu

(Jumping of the soap box before the first rock hits me)

Rick, I see a light at the end of the tunnel............I just hope its not a train.