To get this off the ground with more than just hand sketches, here's the foot print of the building, slightly divided into layout area and auxilliary purposes. I used AnyRail, if you would like the Any file send me a PM. The tan blocks are the 30"x 60" basic segments. IMHO they're barely OK since they tend to be as boring as N-Trak modules.
Hans, Close to what I'll have, the shop is an attachment to the layout space not part of it. Yes I agree that plain old 30 x 60 blocks are blah. I'm only giving up 3 feet by the doors to allow for the swing of the person door as it wil be a 36" wide door, the space in front of the roll up will be a small desk (maybe dispacter will go there, computer will set there also). As you can tell from my scketch I'm no artist, but I do think curves, bumpouts and narrowing areas are needed. Maybe I can work the double main around the space first and then work off that. Vary the distance both from the front of the benches and do some long sweeping curves down the really long sides. All, I am modeling 70's to current as yet named railroad. I'm not modeling a specific area or roadname. So call it freelance, but I will have actual scenes from actual places in the layout. The Autorack yard is an example of that, it is based off of East Brookfield ,Mass. There are going to be a few areas that are going to be the busy places. The big yard, all the industries will ship to here, it'll be divideded up and shipped to destinations around the layout, Intermodal yard and shipyard, alot of traffic here both overseas ooutgoing shipments (cars,containers,grain,scrap metal,wood...ect) The big yeard will determine what loads are delivered based on what ship(s) are in port. Theere will be alot of smaller industries to support all of this around the layout. Lets say I have two heavyily forrested areas, great place for some sawmills, logs come in, lumber and wood chips go out, maybe the wood chips go to a powerplant some where on the layout, see the theme here....industries+product=long trains. So, right now I have a huge space that needs some varied benchwork so its not dull. I have an autorack facility drawn up, well I need some support industries for it don't I, need car parts, maybe a car dealership or two some where, space for cars to be unloaded at the dock for shipment overseas (seems Japan is now a major importer of US muscle). Just like the existing railways we have today. I'd like to have as much of American industry as the layout can handle (maybe a trek into Canada too) So when you all ask WHAT IS THE OVERALL SCHEME I say to you, model as much of American industry as the layout can handle while capturing the varied terrain and rural towns as possible (I hate big cities so that will end up being flats or background images) the main emphisis will not be the big megatropolisis, they will be present but small compared to everything else. I'd like to work some important places into the layout, maybe the liberty bell or statue of liberty, any place within the modeling range of a railroad track. I've got lots of space to fill and I can still add a second level and maybe even a third. I do think a layout this size will need some staging areas so that'll be in the mix also. I'm not a hard core railroad gotta be done just like the real thing kinda guy, I want this to be a fun but challenging layout. I'm not gonna throw a fit if someone doesn't do it like the big boys do. It's a hobby and not a job, the moment it becomes a job it gets ripped out and I start knitting sweaters. So what we have so far. Well read the thread its all here as I have tried to answer all the questions as best I could. I have been getting N-scale "stuff" for over ten years so I kinda have a headstart on it. Sure I need to purchase, build lots more "stuff". I even have my own laser engraver to make things for the layout. Leftover from the business and could use to be run a bit more, gotta share it with the ex but with her money talks and I'll eventually buy her out. It's an awesome tool when you know how to use it. Now as far as the layout, right now the bench plans have way too many straight edges, so I need to draw the mainlines to get an overall picture of how the bench work should be shaped. I know somewhere near the front will be a liftout,swing away in order to get into the layout, doable just need to pick a spot. Maybe design in a wide swing up bridge, maybe the bridge could be model after the Rockville bridge the connects the Enola yard to Harrisburg. I see that bridge everytime I travel up to camp or to see friends an relatives. It's a 3 tracker still I believe, been awhile since I stopped and took a good look at it. There is a small broken down trainstation in my hometown, going to grab some pics of it and get it in the layout somewhere. I like the having the penninsulas, it breaks the space up and they can be double sided to create more scenes. If I do a second level it'll be confined to the perimeter, I hate ducking (twenty years on and off ships and being 6'7' my poor noggin took a beating) so NO to anything in the center, I have my reasons. Any suggestions???? Jody
Hans, Thanks for the motivation. Here is what I have so far. A bit blocky but better than a bunch of squares. My bench work will allow for some pretty nice curves, as long as I remember to keep the aisles wide enough. I can reach about 30" without leaning over too much. I guess the perimeter can be a maximum of 32" with no track beyond say 28" from the fascia, maybe go to a minimum of like 12-15 inches would be good. I did place some track as kind of a reference point. I have three drawbridges for access around the layout. I have a track dedicate to staging which will be below the seaport area. I saw a slide out drawer that indexes to the staging outbound track, I may investigate that further. The base height of the benchwork will be 50" to roadbed and can go up or down from that point. Preferably not down a whole lot as the ol' back doesn't like bending. The entrance and exit of the big yard will be a two track wye configuration so each side has access to north and south. All I got for now. Jody Tan areas are bench and dark areas are aisles. Gray areas are drawbridges. 1 square = 1 foot
Hi Jody, The foot print I did you can easily modify in AnyRail, then we all read from the same page. If the shop/lounge/utilities room etc is an annex perhaps make up a separate plan for that. Important: keep the dust out, keep the dust out, keep the dust out! Ceiling, floor and ingress through windows and doors! While on the structural items, with a place that large and getting progressively more obstructed you should consider emergency exits! Theme of the layout sounds interesting. General observation; trans-shipping i.e seaport, raw materials to finished products, distribution of imported finished goods is a lot more believable if those goods are transported in enclosed cars. hopper, boxcars, containers, tankcars. Hard to tell if a tanker is empty or loaded, same goes for the other types mentioned. If you deliver wrapped lumber on an open car to a lumber distributor/yard and that car doesn't leave empty then .... it's "hmmmm" time. That's just one example of many. Same goes for any bulk material (coal, sulphur, iron ore etc. etc. ) that arrives in open loads at a sea port -- it's loads in - empties out. On the staging: make it open and pretend that it is a marshalling yard depending on the layout config you could have an Eastbound and a Westbound yard side by side and through tracks for that continuous running scheme. On that laser ... very super-duper handy stuff. if you ever mention being stuck on the structures .... I'll tell you to fire up that laser! BTW while we're on tha subject, I mentioned that CADrail is my prefered design software .... well guess what? Design in CADrail export as a DXF and use the DXF in COREL Draw to feed the laser. As I like to say: it's not what kind and how many tools you have, it's did you really learn how to use them? Lift out/swing up section: there's no law that says the track needs to go around the complete perimeter, even less so if you plan on multi-level. Leave one area wide enough to move anything in or out and keep the aisles wide enough to never have to squeeze by anything or anybody.
hi, I did some doodling as well, just to check standards. Drawn on a 24" grid, with a 60x36 layout size. Some remarks: * fine tuning is still needed, but the overall scheme seems possible with 3 feet or wider aisles. * extra width can be obtained by mushrooming along the lowest aisle or having more moderate radii (30" in stead of 36"). * 30 inch wide sections are very wide in N-scale; remember you will have to scenic them as well. (18" would do pretty well, BTW already in HO) This plan is not meant to impose something onto you, just to figure out about possible radii and trainlength. For the latter i drew a possible yard configuration, to figure out possible trainlength. The 20 feet mentioned will fit easily, maybe even longer trains are possible. The helix does double duty, getting trains up, so you can easily walk into your railroad room, without a duck- or nod-under. The height was used for a mountain division, with a raised platform. Your trains will have a mountain to climb. Both the helix and the big incline have a 2% grade. The helix is also used to get trains down to staging under the big yard. (4" per turn). A loop to loop design could be done as well, though it will depend on your wishes about open-top traffic. Paul
Hans, I'm looking into cadrail and may get me a copy, my desktop crapped out on me the other night, I was able to save all my data luckily. Got a new one being spec'd out and should have alll the parts in for it soon. So for now my little netbook is working overtime. The laser is awesome. I will no doubt be using it alot for scratchbuilding things. I've thought alot about that emergency exit idea and think a door near the back of the building will be installed. Paulus, I agree 30" is alot of scenicking, for the larger industries I know more room will be needed but for the smaller industries I should be able to get away with 12-18" wide benchwork. I like the flow of your diagram, however I want to avoid a helix and use the length of the building to transition from mid level to any othe level, left side could be going down, right side going up. Now that I see some sort of layout I know that to get the right radii those pennisulas will have to be widened on the ends. Another thing I like about your layout is only one spot for a lift out/duck under, a duck under wouldn't be bad at around 75" for me. Perferably I would do a swing out if it were any lower. One of the guys on here is using a few pieces of expandable unitrak to make his connections. Sure i'd have to make some transition pieces but knowing the connections at the swing out were good to go would be nice. With an emergency door I'd have to have two such areas but i think the safety of an extra way out is important. I must look at some more mushroom type plans, I know I said no mushrooms but but hey if it gets me a more varied layout why not. Appreciate the input from you guys. Jody
I revamped the footprint i.e. left just an entry foyer with the doors leading off it. That area could be used for the dispatcher's office if and when you decided it would be neat. The way I arranged the peninsulas a lot of the layout will be visible as you come in the door. Once you're operating/running you will have just one section at a time in view - that is if you pay attention to the train instead of playing tourist. . All aisles at least 4 feet wide, all operating areas (yards, towns, industries etc. etc.) staggered in order to leave enough room for the operators, also enough viewing angles to just stills or videos. Each square is 12"x12", benchwork mostly standardized for ease of construction. Scenic view blocks on the long straights will ease the "too linear" impression. Basic plan attached, a bit more with designations to follow.
Hans, You da man!!!!! I like this very much. I did some crude enhancements with paint. Just really some extensions to what you already have there. I like they way this is laid out, not too crampy and lends itself for adding a second level above if wanted. Simply put I am astounded that anyone would take the time to put this much effort into this. My hat is off to you sir!!!!! Jody
I may have just overlooked it, but what kind of ceiling height are we dealing with? You may be able to work in nod-unders or have the benchwork completely above man-door height depending on the ceiling and how interested you are in mountain operations.
Hi Jody, Thanks for the compliments! Doing a bit of imagineering is what keeps my gray matter working as it should And here the basic trackage i.e. a more or less straight mainline which needs to be tuned to conform to the geological forms of the landscape i.e. not much tangent trackage in the mountains. Just two towns, one of them designated as a mining town. Division points at either end of the Mountain Division. staging yards under both Division Points using return loops. The balloon at each division point is intended for a roundhouse. Industries to be added to both Division Points. Max grade is 2% climbing out of Town A. Part of the line is double tracked, the rest is too rugged to fit in a second track. Bridges, tunnels and snowsheds to be added as required or desired. If you would like the Any file, let me know. Have fun with it!
Jeepy, Still contemplating cieling height. One part of me wants 10' but another part of me wants to do 16' as to allow the space to house a travel trailer or rv. You know I gotta thinkk about resale value and the higher ceiling may net me more. But it will cost more to heat/cool. Jody
One more to emphasize the concept in this section: wide open country with grain elevators and more grain elevators. That's about it!
One more kick at the can. Mining operation in Town B; company owned switcher takes care of the car shuffling. Instead of the oldfashion load-out one could also model a Flood Loader by altering the tracks as indicated in red. An that is it, have to get back to laying track, big stuff in 1:22.5. BTW those who have a trial/full copy of AnyRail can download the file on the AnyRail forum and have a close-up look.
Hans, Thanks for all the help, I think you have got me going in the right direction. Posts some pictures some time of the track laying your doing. It'd be neat to see. Jody
Hi Jody, You're welcome! BTW the last item I added is the swing-out segment for the continuous loop. Constructed like a swing gate - roller on the free end - that should be sturdy enough. I'll post some pictures of the staging trackage - operationally it gets treated like the end of the line - when I have a bit more done, six spikes per tie and there are quite a few ties. I bought one of the Spiker tools from Switch Crafters. Not as many bent spikes even if the ties have hard spots.
This N scale layout is roughly 25'X28' overall and uses a 24" mainline radius. Just something to give you an idea of scope. Note that the spiral peninsula arrangement creates the option of more straight track with fewer end-loop "blobs" This is often a good choice, even in a large space, as this creates more useful locations for switching areas, yards, etc. By the way, I noticed that you mention that you don't want multiple decks, but that you do want a mushroom design. A mushroom is inherently multi-deck, although one only views one deck at a time from opposite aisles. In as much space as you have, the complexities of mushroom construction (raised floor, etc.) aren't usually a worthwhile trade-off. If you plan to design your own layout for the future, it's my advice (always ignored) to spend time studying a resource such as John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation rather than focusing on dozens of CAD revisions. Best of luck with your layout.
Hey Jody, I envy you in your ability to build what size layout room you want. I can see a layout in that space that has tons of trains and is a great pleasure to operate. Planning is just as hard as the building later on. Of course, you seem to have the background for the construction. Take all the time you have stated you have before laying the first piece of track. Even with the one car garage tht I have for my layout, I have drawn countless different track schemes to figure out what I like best, and what I want to have more or less of. For your good feelings later, I suggest you come up with as many different designs now that you can fit in a large box. Take a look at K-10smodeltrains.com This gentleman built a large building the same size you're planning on having built. He runs HO scale, but the pictures of his layout may give you an idea of what you can do with yours. He built his on top of a level surface of kitchen cabinets for storage, but those can be omitted for regular legs and supports. That will allow you to have the height you need for your ease of use. Of note for his access, he built a ramp to an observation deck, and stairs down into the center pit of the operating area. With the layout height you have decided for yourself, duckunders won't be a problem. Good luck in your endeavors. I look forward to seeing the progress.
NSseeker, I've worked long and hard to get where I am at today, that said I'd like to enjoy life a little and this is one of many things that I enjoy doing. Thanks for the link, I think I have perused his site before put I'll spend some time looking at the pictures. Yes this will be a project and as I get happy with each section I will move on, getting a good flowing benchwork (thanks Hans) as gotten me really thinking of what I need to accomplish. The guys here have jump started me into doing this right the first time around. Jody
