If the Metrolink was headed north then it hadn't arrived at the siding yet? Or are the news articles wrong about the location of the siding? EDIT: I see by looking in Google Earth that the closest siding is just to the south in Chatsworth. It was the Metrolink spokesperson who said there was a siding to "the north of the tunnel". There is a another siding to the north, but quite a bit farther away (in Santa Susana), through a much longer tunnel than the one where I presume the crash took place.
Metro Link spoke person quoted as saying (paraphrased) "our engineer, who died, blew a red signal to wait for the freight to enter the southbound siding" The count is now 19, not counting several bodies which can be seen - but not reached at this time.
The Metrokink engineer should have called the signal aspect back to the conductor who would then acknowledge the signal aspect back to the engineer. This happens over the radio. I know all Amtrak trains operating on these tracks call the signals between the engineer and conductor. Wouldn't the dispatcher be notified that the Metrolink train passed the red signal? You would think there would be alarms and lights all over the dispatch center. The conductor was injured but survived. The engineer did not survive.
Latest toll I am seeing put the number at 24. How sad. I am thinking that just because the Metrolink went through a red light, doesn't mean the dispatcher would have time to react. What could he do anyways aside from notify the Union Pacific train? I am assuming the U.P. crew survived, I haven't read or seen anything that indicated otherwise?
The crash site was less than 1200 feet beyond the switch. At 40mph for the Metrolink, that's about 20 secs or so. There would have been less than that for the dispatcher to get the alarm and try to radio the train. This is the location of the crash site. Exactly in the middle of the curve. The odd-shaped green lawn to the north of the track is where they set up triage. google maps link As you can see, it appears to be a blind curve for both trains. Really unfortunate, the engineers probably didn't see each other until a few secs before the crash. Possibly neither even had time to hit the brake. (OTOH, if the timing had been 10-15 secs different, the crash might have occured IN the tunnel, which would have been even more horrific for emergency response.) What is surprising to me is that the switch wasn't lined for the freight. If the freight train were less than two minutes from reaching the switch, wouldn't it be lined already? There may be more to this than simply error on the Metrolink engineer's part. One thing you can say is that the SD70ACE seems to have done about a 100 times better than the F59 and Bombardier. We've not heard anything about the UP crew. I hope they were just bruised.
Initially I was going to say that the lead U.P. locomotive appeared to be #8485, but the more picture I find, I can't tell. Appears that the cab area held up pretty well. Do Metrolink trains run 24/7? Is it possiblt the engineer could have fallen asleep at the throttle after working sicne the wee hours in the morning? I read a line that another metrolink employee said the engineer was known as being "talented" and "qualified". From Yahoo's article: "...Ray Garcia, a train conductor with Metrolink until 2006, said he knew the engineer involved in the crash for nine years and called him qualified and talented. He declined to name the engineer...."
Looks to me like 8465 in this picture. http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-09/42325485.jpg 8491 was the second loco, and the cab did worse. http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-09/42336739.jpg
Well, Metrolink is claiming full responsibility one way or the other. Though given the obvious facts of the situation, I don't know how they could do otherwise. I just found out about this when I went to check the OC line's sat. schedule and saw nothing but the alert. My heart and prayers go out to all involved. I worry that this, combined with the accident a few years ago that generated the push-pull lawsuits will mark a setback for commuter rail in SoCal? Governor Schwartzeneggar was there at the Scene either yesterday, or more likely today.
I guarantee the switch was lined for the freight. Metrolink has said their Engineer failed to stop at a stop indication, which means he went past the signal, ran through the switch then the collision happened. CTC systems have event recorders also, which show everything the DS does. I'm sure that the signal system was fully tested post collision and pre-press release. Edit: signal failure is still an option. Those who ask how an Engineer can "not see" a red signal... It's not nearly as hard as you think. Fatigue, preoccupation, stress, cell phone, you name it. There are many things that can distract an Engineer, especially when the Engineer is alone in the cab. As for reaction times... They probably had about 3-4 seconds to react. Visibility looks like it would be no more than 6-800 feet. Disclaimer: Post may sound biased... It's a little different when you know people involved:tb-confused: Post Script: Still have not heard anything "official" of the fate of the UP crew involved. Sources vary in crew size, fatalities, etc...
Whatever the cause, I hope it is found and that if there is some sort of equipment or signal failure that it is found and redesigned and re-done. My thoughts are with all those who survived, the first responders, and the families and friends of all who died. :tb-sad::tb-sad::tb-sad::tb-sad:
Would he have gotten 1000 feet past the switch if it hadn't been lined for his route? Or wouldn't he have derailed on the switch? Sorry if this is a dumb question.
Trailing through a switch that is lined against your movement will not cause a train to derail. The weight of the train would force the switch points over and cause the linkage/machine to break. Trust me, I've done it:tb-embarrassed:
Joe, can you "feel" this in the locomotive? I would figure the points would get all bent up too, since there isn't room between the wheels of the loco for the points of the turnout. I know that a loco weighs a ton more than the rails, but it just seems to me that you would feel the switch points bending and breaking. But I'm not a professional, like yourself =) -Mike
You might hear a "pop," but you don't feel it. The switch points, when a mechanism is not attached, are free floating and usually do not get damaged. There are variable switches, or flop-overs, with switch mechanisms that are designed to allow the switch to be run through, like spring switches without the "spring." Picture a hot knife through butter... very little resistance vs. weight.
So, I'm sitting here in Fullerton at the Amtrak station enjoying WiFi via Trainweb. The engineer of the Surfliner I took from Oceanside knew the Metrolink Engineer. He gave a last name. Don't know if I should repeat it. Also, there are a bunch of teens railfanning here that were apparently up there at the time of the accident. They claim they were text messaging the engineer right before it happened. They also claim they were on the CBS news. So if any of you see anything about Text Messaging, I've met the kids. It's kinda surreal here today. I'm not sure how long I'll stay.
Which train's engineer? I would somehow hope this is untrue. If true, the distraction.... And if there is later searching for liability, could those kids end up in court? Boxcab E50
Ummm... if it was the Metrolink engineer, he's meeting the great judge in the sky about now. I don't even understand why people send text messages while driving a car. I can't imagine doing so as an engineer.
I doubt anything will happen to the kids. The Engineer did not have to respond to the text messages. Nearly every railroader is guilty of using a cell phone in one way or another while the train is moving. Nothing new, there are rules against it, it will continue to happen. It's a dangerous tool that should only be used if circumstances permit, like while stopped... I've seen news sites that "confirm*," via cell phone records, that the Engineer was text messaging shortly before the accident. If you'll recall the head-on between BNSF trains near Gunter, TX on May 19, 2004, cell phone usage played a major role in that accident. * I don't trust media sources. Edit: Metrolink Engineer is accused of using cell phone.
