I am planning to build a new layout and I've decided to use DCC. After reading all the comments and the literature I'm leaning toward Northcoast Engineering. Does anyone have any negative comments on NCE? Howie [ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: Railfan462 ]</p>
I have nothing but praise for it. I've used it for almost 3 years now, and love it. Only thing I don't like, but can live with, is you cannot program on the programming track and still run the layout. But usually you program, then run, so no big deal to me.
My one piece of advice to you is to get the system that is the most popular in your area. If you have problems...and you will...you will have other's to talk to and help you with the solutions. DCC is really still at the MSDOS stage of computer development in model railroading.
Thanks Corey, Does this mean that every time I start up my layout I must re-program all my locos, turnouts, et al.? Or are you referring to changes in program? I always assumed that once a loco or whatever was programmed, it always responded to your control unit or hand-held by the push of one button. Is this not so? Howie
Anybody have any info on the alleged new starter set coming from Digitrax. S'posed to be low price, and upgradeable?
DCC Decoders will "remember" their programming - you can remove them from the layout and shelve them, or transport between layouts, and they won't have any problems. As for system choice - have you looked at Atlas' system? I've tried it on my new layout, and I'm hooked. It's a bit more limited than NCE or Digitrax, but the architecture allows you to "build" a system more gradually and spread out the cash outlay (important to me cause I'm po'). Furthermore, I found Atlas to be a very user-friendly system. In the final analysis, if you're new to DCC, I'd agree with Rick - the system in widespread use where you are makes sense to be best able to get advice. Online forums are good, in person is better. B-Dubya
Here is my two cents for going with Digitrax: 1. Largest number of users and sellers. This includes the largest users' group with expert help. No matter what system you buy you will need help. 2. Because it is sold by the most dealers there is a lot of discounting (Save money). 3. Loconet true peer to peer system. No need to upgrade or tell command station when you add something new. Plug the device into Loconet and it works. If you want radio control buy a receiver and buy the handheld throttle. No changes required to the command station. Just plug it into the Loconet. Same with any of the other subsystems. 4. Easy expansion. Buy an entry level system now and then in the future buy a new command station. The old command station becomes a booster. You don't have to throw away or sell anything if you want to upgrade. 5. Detection (BDL-16)with built in Loconet messaging costing about $6 per block. This means you don't have to buy/build a detector and also buy/build an interface as you do with most detection systems. 6. Switch controllers (DS54) with built in Loconet messaging. Tell your signal system what the position is of all your switches. I would strongly recommend you take another look at Digitrax. The only thing that people used to, and I repeat used to, bash Digitrax for was their complicated throttle. That is gone now. The new DT400 is as good or better than the NCE/System One units. If you want a smaller throttle the DT300 is available. Good luck on your decision. [ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: ncng ]</p>
The starter set in Digitrax is excellent because the only difference between it and the next system up is the throttle. When you buy your second throttle... and you do need two if running with a buddy on your layout... then if you buy the throttle of the next system up... you now have... the next system up...lol. Unless you have a massive layout, and you are going to be running many many operators... then the middle digitrax system is all you need. Eighty percent of all layouts running DCC are Digitrax in the city where I live. This means I can bring my throttle to any one of those layouts and use it, even if they are using radio control and I'm not, as long as there are a couple of plug in's. And they can bring their radio controlled hand helds to my layout and run it, as long as their throttle is plugged in (which it normally isn't since it is radio controlled). Even if you are a lone wolf now, you might find latter in the hobby, you have made social connections with other's who have layouts. Then you might regret not having a system that can easily integrate into theirs. When apple computers came out, it was clearly the superior system. But DOS, then to become Windows, won out because of its popularity (I won't go into the reasons). Clearly, most marketed to DOS/Windows and it was easier to get compatible software in that environment. The same with DCC. Even if there is a better system, I would be inclined to recommend Digitrax. [ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: rsn48 ]</p>
Down here in Sydney I have heard a rumour that there my be a Digitrax user in the area. I know of no retailer in Australia of Digitrax. The popularity of Digitrax is not universal. System One/NCE and EasyDCC are the most popular systems here (at least in my circle of model RR friends.) Before making a purchase - try to find someone who uses the system you are interested in and use it yourself. Before I used a System One/NCE system I did not think I would like it - the cabs seemed to big and I don't need a button for everything, but I found the learning curve to be very shallow and the cabs are actually very comfortable to hold. [ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: yankinoz ]</p>
Good points for Digitrax as well, both systems will suit your needs, and it boils down to a matter of personal preference on some things. It appears you are willing to take the plunge for a full-featured system, so I would recommend either the NCE or the Digitrax Chief II. Now I will go through ncngs points for Digitrax and compare them with NCE. 1) Can't compare there, Digitrax is the most popular system. However, both systems have excellent support, both from the company and Yahoo Groups. 2) Discounts available on both systems. Tony's Trains (http://www.tonystrains.com) in Vermont, who I deal with, has these comparable systems: Super Chief II 5A - DT400 throttle, 5A booster for $384. Powerhouse Pro - NCE ProCab, 5A booster, $389. Digitrax with the DT300 is cheaper, but a comparable throttle raises the price. 3) Same thing with NCE, it recognizes all new devices. Wireless is on the way shortly, and will be a true two-way communication, rather than the one way currently offered by all other systems. Buy the reciever and an attachment for your throttle and you're off. This means you can change which throttle(s) have wireless ability. Also, all throttles will be able to become wireless. 4) NCE has never marketed an low level system, and it appears you want the full boat, so this point doesn't really matter. 5) NCE markets a BD20 block detector and AIU which can handle 14 BD20s, this all plugs into the cab bus on NCE, same way. Or you can use your own third party signalling system, like my club is. 6) NCE markets their Switch-It, which can control two switch machines. Again, same thing. From what I have heard of the DT400, it is much better than their other throttles, but still not as convenient and well done as the NCE ProCab. Also, this only applies to the DT400, the other cabs are still confusing and poorly set up. NCE's low level cabs are still as simple as the ProCab. Again, I haven't had any personal experience, so cannot say for sure. NCE also markets a cab bus clock which runs on the bus. You can set the command station internal clock to run off of a fast clock for operating sessions, or just display realtime. This time is displayed on the clock, and also in the LCD screen on the ProCab. This is a feature we use a lot, and find it VERY helpful with op session, and much less expensive than having your own fast clock done, and you can move the clocks all over the layout to wherever you need them. Again, good luck with your decision, and feel free to ask for clarification on any points. And no, all that happens when you program is the track power shuts down, and you only need to use it to program a new loco or new decoder install.
Some follow up to some of the posts: There are a lot of Digitrax users in Australia. Just go to the Digitrax users' group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitrax and post a message. There are also active users in NZ who are members. There are 6 dealers listed on the Digitrax website for Australia. Digitrax will have a duplex radio out in the near future. I wouldn't doubt that the timing will be similar to the NCE units. The Digitrax system includes a fast clock. This can be displayed on each of the handheld controllers. There is also a Loconet fast clock that you can mount anywhere. All you have to do is plug it into Loconet and give it power. Whatever you decide on I am sure you will be glad you went with DCC. [ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: ncng ] [ 04 December 2001: Message edited by: ncng ]</p>
I have stated my personal preference before, so I will try and keep it brief. I went with the Digitrax Chief II system. The main reasons were that: 1) I "learned" DCC on a Digitrax system and 2) my NTrak club uses it. My experiences: the Digitrax system is very easy to use. As a true novice, I was able to pick up on the system controls, programming, etc., in short order. The main thing is that my club "guru" was very Digitrax knowledgeable. Our club was using the Digitrax Chief with DT100 throttles. I actually bought a DT300 throttle first, to ensure I'd have a throttle to use at our (club)shows. Then, we got an offer to buy Digitrax at a great price, so I ended up buying the Chief II system. Yes, I have 2 DT300 throttles, but I have actually used both of them simultaneously at some shows. The ability to have something to use at our club functions (several per year) as well as at home, definately weighed heavily in my decision. Harold
By starter system, I don't mean the current system by Digitrax, the Genesis II, I believe. I saw on a post elsewhere that Digitrax will soon release a new, lower cost, all-in-one starter set for small layouts. I haven't heard about a name, and which controller it will use, but it is s'posed to go head to head with Atlas and MRC's Prodigy set. Has anyone else heard of this?
The new Digitrax entry system will be the Zephyr. They annouced it at the National Train Show but it isn't listed on their web page. I have heard that it is being made in conjunction with Kato. Kind of like the Atlas and Lenz joint venture on the Atlas DCC system.
The real bottom line of it all is to use the controllers -- hopefully of several manufacturers. Some types appeal to certain people and some to others. I chose NCE a few years back because it was the only one (with, of course, System One) whose controller I could just pick up and use. I rarely have to look in my manual for anything -- even the programming and consisting follow English commands. As I got DCC to use Soundtraxx, I really appreciate labeled buttons for horn and bell. But what I like best about my NCE system is that it has worked everytime I've turned it on for some three years now. But even if it didn't, I've only heard good stories about how Jim Scorse personally handles problems, even when it's "operator error". The stories are from the Yahoo! NCE-DCC users group, the archives of which are a treasure trove of "DCC....Which brand?" lore.
I guess I'm the lone Lenz user around here, BTW it's the high-end version of the Atlas. It really doesn't matter which system you buy, it boils down to which controller is easiest for you to use and can YOU understand the manual! Try and get copies of all the manuals from co's you are considering and read them. That will tell you a lot. Not the least of your learning curve will be how easy it is to comprehend their manual. Good Luck!
What can I say. I'm the other loner here. I'm using Zimo for the last 15 years without any problems and You guesst it have nothing but praise for it. If everybody is driving a Chevy and You feel like owning one, by all means buy one. But if You want the best there is You would by a Cadillac. The same goes for DCC. Like the old saying goes, You get what You pay for. And if You want to drive Your Loco on Your friends layout You still can, after all it is fully NMRA compatible. Here are just a few examples of Zimo features: "ZIMO represents the most advanced end of DCC. We always try to find and to implement the very best solution for any element of the system, beginning with the system architecture up to the software control While offering all high level standard features of the DCC world, ZIMO has additional characteristics, which make the system to stand out from rival products. This is a (possibly incomplete) list: of such features: Multiprotocol operation (NMRA-DCC and MOTOROLA). Stabilized and adjustable (12 to 24 V) track voltage. Programming track with capability to operate trains. Built-in volt and current meter. Multifunctional cabs (hand-helds) including loco and accessory operation, programming, routes, block control, etc. Bidirectional communication for wireless cabs (infrared and - soon - radio). Virtually noiseless and very smooth way of driving the locomotive motors. Function mapping not only corresponding to, but going beyond the NMRA recommendations. Prototypical slow illumination and dimming of signal lights. AND the very unique "Signal controlled speed influence" and loco number identification." And here You can check it out: Zimo What ever system You choose, have fun with it! Art
Thank you all. When I decided to go for DCC I leaned toward Lenz. Then.....I decided on Easy DCC from CVP. I like the idea of a control panel with the controls in one spot. I also like big knobs. Then I looked at NCE and liked that system. Soon I became intrested in Digitrax. At the moment I'm leaning back toward Lenz. This morning I got online with Tony's train exchange and ordered the book on DCC. Money is not a problem. (as far as model railroading is concerned). When I buy , I will order the most advanced components available but I really need to know as much as possible about DCC in general and the various offerings in particular. And if this isn't enough......I also want radio control. Remember when you put the train on the track and pushed the lever on the transformer? And the damn thing ran? No decoders, no transponders, no boosters........
Remember when you could only run one train at a time per block? Remember when you had to run 5,000 wires under the benchwork? I for one don't miss those days. Someday the myth that DCC is more complicated will be be gone. It is far simpler, just different. Everyone learned to wire blocks, reverse curves, and the like for multi-cab control because that was all there was. Ask someone to do that now (a DCC user) and they would think you were insane! It doesn't matter which system you choose. Just jump in and start having the time of your life!! Pete (happy Digitrax user)
Pete,.........my comments were "tongue - in- cheek." Those were, truly, the bad old days and one of the big reasons was that there was no "Trainboard Forum"......a place where a frustrated model railroader could come to put his/her problem on the table........and then wait for the advice to pour in. And I think you put your finger right on it. All these systems are good. They are just different. Some people like this and some people like that........so one must choose the one that has the type of handheld or whatever that he likes. I will read all about DCC......hopefully I'll understand it.......and then make my choice. And in doing so I will be aware that in the end, I can't go wrong. DCC is the way to go and I know it is fun. Thanks again.........and stay tuned Howie .
