Do you HONESTLY feel that Kato commited a fraud with respect to this issue? Honestly....is that your position on this issue?
It sounds like they're leaving those details to the dealer, its all well and good if you can just pop down the street to the dealer where you bought it. A couple of things that spring to mind are, is your dealer capable of doing the job, (no offence to dealers intended), the second is that should it be the dealers job to fix anyway? I've e-mailed Kato asking if they can send the retrofit kit to me to do myself rather than send the loco to a hobby shop, as I bought it from the US and don't want to be sending it back and forth, and the way I read Kato's letter, the hobby shops will be installing the kit and I figure if its easy enough for them to do I ought to be able to do it myself.
Not petty, Kato specifically advertised the GS4 to work with their drop in EM13 decoder, and it doesn't, so its up to them to provide a fix.
Bachmann advertises an engine as "DCC ready" but it requires soldering and the removal of jumper clips.
They have.....it's a plastic clip to be installed as a step during the prep-stage of the decoder install. Most decoder installs have prep stages...usually there is removing a bus jumper, this prep stage also has the install of the plastic clip. I have yet to see a decoder install that doesn't have some minor prep stage actions.
Guys, Just found this on that "other forum". http://www.katousa.com/PDF/GS-4-DCC-April21.pdf Hope this helps! T
Bachmann didn't advertise an engine as being ready to drop in a specific decoder of their own manufacture, which is what Kato did, obviously without trying one themselves. Anyway, I will await Kato's reply to see if they will send me the 'retrofit kit' as they call it, if it is, as you say, just a plastic clip I don't see why I should send the loco to a dealer to have it installed.
If Kato takes responsibility for fixing the issue (or does so through their dealers), we gripe about having to pay shipping (and risk loss or damage). If Kato provides a retrofit kit to the hobbiest, then we gripe that we shouldn't have to fix Kato's problem. Sometimes you just can't win. (Personally I wouldn't trust my neighborhood hobby shop to even put my loco on ther track correctly, and I doubt many of the high volume e-tailers are equipped to retrofit locos in a mass recall. I'll do it myself, thanks.) Oh, and another thing....<G>. I'd be willing to bet that Kato DID test the loco with the EM13 decoder and it worked fine. There is no problem with the decoder or it's installation, the problem is only intermittent (and unforseen) and likely did not occur during their testing. Lessee.. Run on DC - check!, install decoder - check!, run on DCC (forward, backward) - check! No smoke? - check! Good to go! No more of a conspiracy than any auto recall for un-anticipated issues (or aircraft with lacing on wire bundles spaced a few mm wider than spec). We're just lucky that Microsoft didn't make this baby! [/soapbox]
Bachmann has two engines specifically listed as "DCC Ready". Even with this marketing position, the DCC install process still requires soldering. I'm just using this as an example. I guess in our hobby, and this has been a continuing problem, there are many different definitions of "DC Ready" and "Drop-in Ready". I have found that every DCC install requires some prep-work. As a side note, most German manufacturers really mean "DCC Ready" when they say it. I have several engines that don't even have DCC plug jumpers. You literally only have to plug in a decoder using a harness. Unfortunately I have NEVER seen an American company have a drop in that requires no prep work. I consider this plastic clip as just part of the DCC prep. Perhaps if there was any complexity to this "fix" I could see this issue as having some traction, however this install of this clip is idiot-proof. I don't personally view this as an issue. At a minimum, I CERTAINLY wouldn't ship my engine off to someone to have the clip installed.
As somebody said earlier in this thread; if you are not happy with the suggested fix, return it forr your money back and be done with it. Anything that is under warranty usually involves freight costs to send it back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement. The fix sounds simple enough and if you don't feel comfortable with your local hobby shop or your hobby skills; make arrangements to send it back to KATO. It's interesting to note which hobby shops have commented negatively about this arrangement so far on some forums. What surprises me most is there is one that has been highly praised for his service level. While no dealer wants to be "told" what to do about a product that he sells especially if they don't have the manpower to "quickly" remedy the situation, I wouldn't publically come out on a forum (not this one) and relate this. I waited almost 8 months for the low profile wheelsets for the first release of the Challenger Steamer. It probably took more time to replace those than it would to do the fix on this problem and KATO didn't take 8 months to resolve it either. Either way, it is not an ideal situation to have a problem with a new product but there would always be some that cannot or will not accept any solution. BUT there is a solution: send it back and request a refund so that you can get a B-man to tinker with
I think KATO will do their best to rectify the situation,whether the purchaser is satisfied is up to each individual.For all of us in the hobby,we have different comfort levels.For some people milling a frame and disassembling a shell can be intimidating,and an expensive learning curve.I like some of the others was excited to see a well performing engine available with a drop in decoder.Some of the things that I am capable of doing others cannot,and by the same token some of their abilities far exceed mine.In that respect,peoples opinions of what is challenging differ.In a forum like this,people should be allowed to express their opinion,and consider the fact that other opinions have merit.It is that very situation which can lead to unfortunate situations where someone is afraid to post their thoughts/ideas.
Petty or not the shipping is going to come out of my pocket or my hobby shops. Which nether one is at fault for this problem. I can install a plastic clip. But the shipping back and forth should be Katos cost. And wanting the customer or hobby shop to pay is petty to me. ibag1956 George
Return the engine. That will solve your problem. My wife once said something very wise. Maybe this will clarify the overall quandry that people seem to be experiencing with tis issue. "John, I became happy when I finally stopped trying to change you. I simply said to myself, 'Can I live with this?'" On our case, bottom line...........can you live with having a plastic jumper clip? If so, then keep the engine. If not, then return the engine and be done with it. No little quibbling about shipping cost, and not in the original advertisement, or the inconvenience, or Kato should have known better.......it's all this simple.......CAN YOU LIVE WITH HAVING TO USE A PLASTIC CONVERSION CLIP? It is what it is.
So I have an additional cost after I purchased an item, to get it to perform as advertised. Sending it back does not solve the problem. I want the engine without additional cost. inag1956
For a more complete 'view' of what went on "behind the scenes" between Hobby Shops and KATO regarding the "FIX" please view the posting on the ATLAS N SCALE FORUM titled "I Heard It From The Grapevine - that KATO". It's not pretty, but it is the truth. Toots
When your car breaks due to poor design do you charge the dealership the fuel or tow charge for you to get your car to their shop?
Do we know yet what this 'clip' looks like... where it's going to be installed or how much work is involved to install it OURSELVES? I am not very adept at fine scale mechanics... I'll do it... but... there's half a chance I'll mess something up in the process. I guess we may have to accept the error that Kato made and accept their solution... whether we like it or not. I'd rather receive the piece and install it myself instead of sending the unit back to Kato. I cost me $38.00 to ship (insured) a bad loco TWICE to a manufacturer... and when it came back... it was still not right. I did get re-imbursed for the second trip to the manufacturer... but in the end I had to get a new one from my e-tailer. It was NOT a Kato unit... but... there is no guarantee that a similar scenario couldn't happen with the Kato GS-4. I don't necessarily give Kato a 'pass' on the DCC mistake... but... their products are usually the 'Gold Standard' for mechanical performance. I can forgive them... without forgetting that this happened... only because of their past performance. I would expect Kato to learn and prevent this from happening again. The GS-4 engine does run (in my case) very well in DC mode; so, I'd have to chalk this oversight to Kato's late entrance into DCC-ready market.
I did have a new car, 3 days old, break down on me 60 miles from home and under warrinty. The dealer sent a tow truck and a loaner no charge to me. I feel that this engine is still under warrinty.
