Joe,will you be painting this for SP?Looks excellent!You guys always tempt me to look at Z more & more seriously.....
I'm fascinated by the casting. I need to learn to do that. It is really a nice job. :thumbs_up: Anyone have a link to an SP painted prototype version? Thanks.
Paint Yup..SP were the only ones that used this car and her sister. I'm hoping to use some castings as leverage to get some decals made. I have a sheet of decals from Micro-Scale for the N scale versions of these to use as reference.. Welcome to the dark side Joe
Link Here you go...lots of good photo's and info on the prototype.http://espee.railfan.net/freight_ore_cars.html Cheers Joe
I just printed some decals for an NP Canoe Scheme locomotive, and it took all week after work to draw them up. The overlay was not super good, as there are 7 layers, and the intense cold in the garage allowed some lifting, so I am going to do another print tomorrow after warming up the printer with flood lamps for a couple hours, and the heater running. Decals for your ore cars will be super easy! Only a couple colors max. To get the deluxe gold for NP I had to lay down spot orange, then clear finish, then spot white, then spot yellow. That was just to get the yellow color close. Also overlayes on the stack was spot silver, then spot magenta, and finally spot black. All that's left is a spot! haha!
Joe, Please plan on casting at least a few of these for me, since SP is the ONLY western road I model. We'll work out SOMETHING.
Ore Cars I'll send down a couple on Monday. Got to do something about this sub zero weather we are having..cutting into my shop time! Kids are getting tired of my stuff spread all over the kitchen and dining room...than goodness I'm not married, I'd be toast right now!! JOe
Joe, The first time I used the 300Q (without realizing it, I thought I ordered the 300), I expected to have 3 minutes to pour, so I was setting out molds and making sure everything was level. I picked up the cup (thinking that it was hotter than usual) and started pouring. It cured mid pour. I let go of the cup, and it just hovered over the mold. It looked like a perpetual flow of pancake batter. Part of the reason I like the 305 is that it gives time to perform some bubble control on open molds. I don't have pressure rig, but, I do have an old vacuum jar that I use for degassing the resin before pouring. That actually helps quite a bit. I never thought of spraying the surface with mold release. That makes sense. Can't wait to try it. Thanks for the tip. Dan S.
Here is another road that uses very similar ore hoppers & the type I have in mind. http://pilbararailways.fotopic.net/p32332066.html More pic's from a great site. http://pilbararailways.fotopic.net/ http://www.railways.pilbara.net.au/index2.html
Jason!! Did you see that link?? SP had 600 cars and you only want 200?? How can that be??!! Just a joke there, of course!
Casting overload Sounds like I need to get a few more gallons of resin...yikes!!!! Today I plan on casting a few solid with some light weight resin. I was thinking that if I take off the upper lip of the car, make a flat pattern of that lip and the ore load above and around it, I could cast these faster. Then I can attach the top to the car with little clean up...humm...keep everyone posted on this on. Weight might be an issue, but considering these things were around 100 ton capacity they were pretty heafty in real life. As long as I have some helpers I should be able to get them around that spagetti factory Loren calls an end module. They are small, 1.42" or so long.
Shrinkage I'm curious if the types of resin that shrink, do so in uniform proportions or if it just sort of deforms as it shrinks? Thanks, Randy
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, as there are lots of great N Scale things that could use the shrink. At 4% it would only take between 7 and 8 generations to convert an N Scale object into a Z Scale object!
Shrink Resin distorts towards the thickest mass...so if you cast a block it will be caved in on all sides at the center...you see this on an open face mold a lot of the time. If you want to shrink something, then you go this route.. First your pattern has to be made out of something that will not be effected by solvents...like a piece of resin...then you wall it up, mix your RTV and mix in 1/3 volume of Acetone..pour your mold and then seal it in a vapor proof jar or or something else you can seal up. Once it has set up, then you take it out, take out the pattern and let the Acetone vaporize...as it does the mold will shrink evenly. If you are clever you can pour mid shrink when it get to the right size,,,I never had that much luck so I just figured on a 20% shrinkage rate and let it go. This is hard to control and takes some messing around to get right. Ta Ta...
Joe, I like the concept, but it sounds like I wouldn't be able to smoke. And, knowing me, I'd probably forget that I couldn't smoke. Randy and Robert, It's not really a proportional percentage that the resin shrinks (at least not in what I have screwed up), it's sort of depends on the size and shape of the casting. And certain aspects shrink more than thers. When I was making my Gulland Standpipes, I had to drill a 1/16" hole through the horn tapered base mounted to the drip basin. I made my pattern the size I wanted the finished product to be, so there was very little room for error. The OD at the narrowest part of the base was just under .010" in diameter bigger than the pipe. The first batch I did, I used Smoothcast 305, which has an average shrinkage of .0035in./in. Everything worked out fine, the bases were square and there was no problem drilling the holes. The next batch, I decided that I would go for a shorter cure time and use the 300. I didn't look at the shrinkage. It was .005in./in., so, on the base of my pipe, it actually shrunk to the diameter of the pipe, so, when I tried drilling them out, I lost most of the base. Then, I noticed that the long sides had bowed in very slightly. The bad part was that I cast 26 of the things to complete an order, and it wasn't until I screwed up 5 of them trying to drill them that I cought on to what had happened. So, I had to next day air in a set of the 305. The remaining 300 went bad before I could use it, so it only cost me about $30 to sell 25 of them. Live and learn and throw stuff away. So, now, anything that is fairly large, or thick, or has any critical dimensions, I use slower curing resin with less shrinkage. To make additional masters, I use the slowest in the 300 series (310). It takes a couple of hours to cure, but it's average shrinkage is only .00025". The faster curing resin is also harder on the silicone mold material that I use (due to the more violent reaction and extra heat). Dan S.
I've just read this whole thread with my jaw lying on my keyboard. What an awesome job, and something I have always wanted to try. The fear for failure being the stumbling block for trying. Thank you for posting this thread, and PLEASE post more pictures!
Try, try again Alleydude.. Cool name by the way. I'll give you a bit of advice I gave any new or frustrated Modelmaker I had working for me over the years. "Plastic is alive, it knows when you are afraid of it and it will do everything it can to twart your efforts to finish something". I think giving life to a piece of plastic came from years of working for Disney, but it seemed to hold water. It's easy to get frustrated and give up...you should see my shop...it's a ship model bone yard...if you ever want to know where old model kits go to die, look in my shop! But to your point, pick something that is not all that complex. I built up a couple of smooth side SP Woodchip cars in just a few hours after the kids were asleep. Some of them are simply a 5 sided box with some strip stock and your done. You also need to decide how detailed you want/need to be. I am a self described 3' modeler. Years and years and years of making super accurate Resort models or trying to get Mickey's nose just right or even desiging products at MTL...has worn down my patience. I want cars on my layout I haven't built yet so I don't worry about undersides and only add what you can see when they are speeding around Loren's end module. In any hobby pursuit it's easy to get caught up in the details and loose sight of what ever goal you have. Some guys want every air line in place and are working out ways to simulate wield lines in Z Scale...others don't care...that's what makes this hobby so interesting and engaging. So get some styrene and start cutting. Heck, go simple, make a CP Wood Chip Car by cutting off the roof of a 40' box car and adding a 3' lip around the top. Some of the cars had doors removed and plates attached over the opening,,,others had the doors locked shut. Simple but interesting conversion. You can also take one of our PS-2's, cut the top off, extend the ends a bit and add the internal seperation plate. You have an open top gravel car for you MOW Fleet. When I get to work on Monday I'll scan the drawings for these and post them for folks wanting to try some of this out. Then, if you are lucky and have the skill, you end up like Robert and Kim and Jason and others who are pushing the bar way ahead of me. Cheers Joe MTL
Hi, Here is a shot of the first pass with the etchings I did this weekend. I have a lot of minor work on the pattern and the brass to get everything sitting right...this is the only way to get things dialed in. I got the N scale Micro Scale Decals for these to help with some of the spacing and the like. I should have more shots later today. Cheers Joe
nice work, joe. is that your smooth side open top wood chip hopper on the left? and what's with the lenses on the loco? looks like the kind that Intermountain (N scale) uses. will these headlight lenses be available on upcoming GP9 releases? they look to be about the right height? if so that will be a welcome addition. dave f.
