Hi guys, As I looked more and more into the Iain Rice plan the more and more I decided that it wasn't exactly for me. I also found out that the space it took up might be a little bit overkill for the space I have. I was hoping that maybe I could get some layout ideas from you guys for a 2' x 19' shelf layout. What I was hoping for was a modern Copper Hauling layout in N Scale. (I decided I wanted to stick a little more with my Arizona heritage as I already have an investment in N scale :tb-tongue Anyway I hope this is enough information however if it is not, please let me know. Here is a list of givens and druthers. Givens: Mine Smelter Gravel Co. Cement Co. Small yard Druthers: Small Bridge Scene Tunnel Small Engine Facility If anyone needs some inspiration, this is a great video of the railroad that has inspired me. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPbLlojCFTk"]YouTube - Arizona's Copper Basin Railway 4/2006[/ame] I would greatly appreciate any help Thanks so much, Chris P.S. I forgot to add that the trains will be moderate length.
Ok, I spent some time playing around and came up with the following. How difficult would it be to add 1 foot in depth for 3 feet on either end? That will allow you a turn around area for continuous running. Ok, I kept the minimum radius at 15" in all visible areas. The turn around on the left side is 13", but that's hidden. I gave you a 3 track yard, 2 track engine facility and an interchange that disappears behind scenery after running under the bridge. The main line begins climbing after entering the tunnel, and levels off just before emerging from behind the backdrop at 1.8 inches in elevation. On the way back down, it would go from 1.8 inches after the bridge to .75 just before the smelter, then along the turn around drops the remaining .75 and meets with the yard at 0. The whole smelter/mine area would be around .6 inches above the yard. If it is impossible to add that extra foot on either end, we can either turn this into a point to point or we can drop the turn arounds down to 11" radius. However I would recomend at the very least a 3 inch extention on either end and go with a 12 inch radius absolute minimum. Are we going down the right track?
Hi Mark, Thanks so much for the trackplan! It is absolutely amazing and so far it is definitely going in the right direction. The only problem I foresee is the side you have opened for the operator is the side I had planned to go against the wall. Would it be easy just to flip that around or would it be best just to try for a duckunder? Unfortunately I can't really say for sure what side you could add a foot to because I'm not 100% sure what it will look like for sure. If it stays the same way, nothing can be added to the right side because there is a door close by. If we decide to leave it the way it is and go for a duckunder type thing (it would be kind of a big duckunder) then the left side would be ok for adding an extra foot. However if it is going to be flipped, I'll have to see it first. Again Mark, thank you so much for the help, I really appreciate it. Chris
Hmm, I dont quite follow you here. Are you saying you want the bottom side of the plan against the wall, but the wall would be along the top side? In that case we could just rotate the plan 180 degrees so the smelter would be on the left and the gravel/cement on the right. Would you be able to post a diagram of the room, including doors, which way they open, and windows?
Hi Mark, Yes, you said it a much better way. Basically, it would just be easier to rotate the plan 180 so that the bottom side of the benchwork is on the top or, like you said, the industries would change sides. Anyway, I could post a diagram however I really am unsure if it would help as the layout is against a wall in my garage. So there are no windows and the door actually opens away from the layout so it would never come in contact or even come close to the benchwork. However, if you still would like me to try a diagram I most certainly will but I'm not quite sure how good it is going to look or how well it will portray the small space :tb-wacky: Thanks, Chris
Ok, being in the garage is simple enough. No diagram needed. So are the 1x 3ft extensions on both ends possible? What are your thoughts on the plan? Is the yard long enough? Are the industries set up ok? Any other thoughts? Basically this is your plan, so let us know exactly what you want and what you like/dislike about our suggestions.
Hi Mark, So far I don't dislike much in the plan. Really, the only thing that I didn't like to much was the fact that the industries were right next to eachother which causes the cars to be switched out of one, then right next door. However, I understand that this is a fairly small layout and I will be fine with the way it is set up. I did have a couple of questions for you however: 1. I wasn't quite sure which tracks belonged to the smelter and which to the mine. Does the mine just have a single track? 2. As far as operation goes, what could I use the reverse/loop tracks for on the left side of the plan? It seems like the gravel co and cement co are easy to get to right from the yard. I do see however that the mine and smelter are not connected to the yard so I can see how you would need a mainline run there. Also, about the extensions: Unfortunately I can't go anymore length wise as I don't want to get too close to the garage door (19' is about a foot and a half away from the garage door). However, I can come out a few feet on the left side of the plan but no more than 5 total feet. I hope that this is all clear and not confusing. Thank you very much, Chris
Doh, it seems the ruler got cut out when I exported the .jpg of the plan. The layout is exactly 19' long, the 3 feet extensions are to the depth. Each "wing" is 3 feet deep and the center 2 feet deep. I put the run around track because its in my nature. Most of the time I simply like to put the trains on and then just watch them run. However if you are satisfied with just a point to point, we can take them out, its up to you. If we did remove the left turn around, we could then split the gravel and cement into two levels, giving you a long run between destinations. And of course we can still separate them with the run around as well. I'll draw up some variations for examples. For the mine/smelter, honestly, I have no idea how those work in real life or how many tracks they need and how long they should be. I assume something similar to a coal mine. Perhaps we could add a spur to the bottom most track for the mine, then the center could be for freight and supplies and the top two for the smelter? I'll make some variations of the mine/smelter as well.
Hi Mark, Well unfortunately the side that will now house the cement and gravel company will not be able to accomodate a 3' depth as it will then go maybe 2" or 3" over the door and it would probably not be a good idea to obscure even though it opens the other way. However, what we can do is the 3" extension that you stated before that would allow a 12" radius. If you feel that this won't work than a point to point will definitely be okay for that side. Also if a point to point is the best choice for that side, is there another place we could possibly fit a tunnel in ( I really liked the idea you had of the tunnel and backdrop). Also, did you use N Unitrack for the layout planning? And if so I should still be able to use flex-track right? Thanks again, Chris EDIT: I remeasured and you could actually bring the wing at the door to 2'6" maximum. Hope this helps.
At the moment, the Copper Basin does not have any GP16's on their roster. Their roster includes GP9's, GP18's, GP39's and GP39-2's.
Yes, I'm using the Unitrack preset as its easy to build and read, but you can simply use flex track in place. You mentioned the door on the right side opens the other way. What if we beveled that edge so instead of sticking out straight into the door, it eases out from the doorway? Here's what I mean with the edge of the layout at 2'3" and beveled out to 2'9" The radius is still 13" for that turn with easements leading in from the tunnel. Another idea I just had was to move the yard to the left side and split up the gravel/cement and put one on the right side of the yard. I try and get that mocked up later this afternoon. Will this work for the benchwork? Do I have it going the correct way? Cheers
Hi Mark, That's definitely a great idea with the beveled edge and I think it will work just fine. I can say for sure that you are on the right track:thumbs_up: I look forward to seeing that mock-up but please, take your time, there is no rush. -Chris
Version 3 The whole yard and interchange area looks a little funky to me, but it works. Perhaps if we pulled it down to 2 yard tracks and a single stub engine facility it would open up the cluttered look. Thoughts?
Hi Mark, The plan looks very good. The only thing I was thinking about changing (which doesn't need to be changed with the plan) is the location of the industries. I would much rather have the smelter and the mine separated then the cement and gravel co. Where the cement co. is now is perfect for the mine because it allows two tracks for loading and one track for sulphuric acid tank cars. I'm debating about the clutter because I am unsure how many cars will be normally held in the yard during operation (having ore cars, hoppers, tank cars). What if we moved the engine facility towards the scenery by the cement plant? Would that free up the clutter? -Chris
Ok, some new ideas are rolling. In a typical mine, would the smelter be relatively close or adjacent or could it be a few miles down the road? What if moved the mine to where the Cement company is (which is actually perfect as the backdrop will provide greater depth to the scene). Then place the cement by the smelter. I like the idea of moving the engine facility to the left more, and we can angle it to run parallel to the right yard ladder. *opens Xtrkcad*
Now I think that looks like the winning plan Typically, the smelter is usually a few miles down the road from the mine however, I'm not quite sure if they're affiliated. Anyway, it looks like all the loads will need a run on that main and I think that will boost operation:tb-cool: Thanks so much for the plan Mark! It came out beautifully and I don't think there is anything that needs to be changed:thumbs_up: Thanks again, Chris
I'm glad you like it. But don't get your heart too set with just the 4th variation. Hopefully we can get some more great minds in on this who might be able to point out some further suggestions or improvements. Cheers,
