Back in "the day" about 20 years ago, there was nothing I enjoyed more than liberating some MT collector cars and weathering the heck out of them and running them. A friend of mine broke out a six pack of Shell tank car that, at the time, were going for some astronomical prices on the paper mail in collector site somewhere up in NY. He wanted them for his layout and let me do the honors. Ahh, the memories.
If you look at your collection of whatever it is only on the basis of it's resale value then to me you're not a collector, you're an investor. A true collector buys something for their collection because they like it, not because of what it might be worth in 20 years time, using that definition we are all collectors. And as I've asked on another thread, why is a Kadee/MTL car that is obviously going to sell by the car load and has been produced in such limited quantities that those who want one to actually run can't get one or has a printing error is a $500 collectible but the same thing from Atlas, Kato or anyone else is a reason for telling them what we think of their marketing and manufacturing processes and threatening not to buy anymore of their products?
Any more so ridiculous than exchanging pieces of paper and bits of almost worthless metal for goods and services or why some cars ('57 Chevy, '64.5 Mustang, etc.) are "classic" and others (like Pacers, Matadors, and Azteks) are dogs? A market for anything can happen anywhere and it is all based on belief and perceived benefits. I know people who can't believe I spend a dime on anything having to do with model railroads and yet they spend $4 for a coffee without blinking an eye. If somebody wants something and has the resources to get it, I say more power to them. I don't have to play in that sandbox if I don't want to and they don't have to play in mine. I wonder if part of it is because there is documentation for date of release for pretty much every MT item while who knows about the old Atlas releases. That and for '74, MTs were pretty advanced and a few releases on a regular schedule keeps people interested over the years even as other manufacturers surpass them in quality.
In their time, Kadee cars were light years ahead of what could be had in other brands. I know that is what attracted me to want them on my layout. They were beautiful to look at and I enjoyed collecting them. Even had a special custom cabinet built to store them. Boxcab E50
X-Special-Run Kadee/MTL Car Collector I not only collected Kadee/MTL cars, I specialized in SPECIAL-RUN cars. Up until 1999, I have at least one (sometimes two or three) of EVERY sp-run KD/MTL car released. And I have a few NOT released to the public. They are all locked away in the storage room waiting until I finish rebuilding my train rooms. The cars will be exhibited, on shelves on the walls and (HORRORS!!!) ran on the INDIANA RAILWAY to earn their keep. SIDENOTE: You should see the car collector's eyes, when they spot a VERY high value car, go past them in a freight train! There several reasons for the drop in value and interest in collecting KD/MTL cars. eBay has a lot to do with it, people are holding on to their money right now, and the resale market has tanked. I also believe that a certain collectors group tried to keep the value of many KD/MTL cars artificially high. This worked for awhile, but when collectors, who had paid rather high prices, for supposedly RARE, COSTLY cars, saw that they could not get their investment back out of the cars, because of the market and the inflated prices of the cars, the resale market just about collapsed. There was also a long running attitude in this group that you were either a collector or a "runner" Runners were looked down on by this group. All they really cared about was owning the cars, not using them on a layout. And HEAVEN HELP YOU, if you were to weather, detail or rework a KD/MTL car. These cars were to be left in their little jewel cases and NEVER be put on the tracks. I had several run ins with this group at our 2008 Louisville Convention. Yes, I was a long time member of this group, but after the BS I saw at the 2008 DCE Convention, I have let my membership lapse and don't want any thing to do with car collecting anymore. One more thing: I mentioned that I was a SPECIAL-RUN KD/MTL car collector. Used to be that a SPECIAL-RUN car really meant something. There were maybe 5-10 SP-RUN cars produced in a year, most of the time for a very special event or maybe a manufacturer had one made for a new line or something else. A SPECIAL-RUN really meant something. But now when somebody's baby fills a diaper, a SPECIAL-RUN car is produced and they want an arm & leg for it also! 'Nuff Said
Well, next time your shoe laces become untied, have a special run made. Or perhaps celebrate finishing mowing your yard, washing the car, walking the dog.... The possibilities are endless! :tb-wacky: Boxcab E50
Yep, Yoho is right. I've got 33,000 baseball cards going back to 1952. Right now the best place for them would be in bicycle spokes !!!!!!!
LOL! I haven't even heard of baseball cards in bicycle spokes for eons. Here's a horse traders quagmire I have a offer of a late run Arnold S2 with KDs for my Atlas Santa Fe zebra stripe RS1.. I know this Alco has been rebuilt with new motor and gears and run quite smooth and quiet but,is it worth $104.00(the current RS1 price) verus the resale or trade value? Seeing I am wanting one I may make the trade.
I sure used up a bunch this way when I was a boy. Along with ruining some decks of playing cards that angered the parents. Boxcab E50
I guess I would be a collector too, except that my collection is used on my model railroad. When I sell off cars, I usually do so at a loss for me, simply because I got in this as a hobby, not as a business venture- besides, if it helps someone to either get started or add a few cars or engines he wants, so much the better. The only thing I've collected recently are the US state & territory quarters. Right now, that collection is worth a little over 13 bucks. May be the same ten, twenty or thirty years from now. I didn't collect them (or my ever-growing pile of Bicentennial quarters) to make a profit- I did so because they mean something to me, and I know I won't lose value on them. They are worth exactly what they are- 25 cents apiece. I guess I just don't understand the collector mentality that some folks have when it comes to certain esoteric, oddball or special-run pieces of rolling stock.
Very true and I may do the trade since I been wanting a S2. However.. I would think long and hard if this locomotive was to become resale or trade fodder.
I resemble this answer... Well said! I would fall into this catagory of 'collector'... not that I wouldn't want my prized cars to be worth more than I paid for them if the need arose to sell them. When I was turned into a 'collector' from just an ordinary 'runner' in the late 1980's... I did have a vision of my Micro-trains cars not so much as valuable [money-wise]... but rather an extension of being a runner. In the 1990's... if the money was available... I'd buy 2 cars... one to run... one to display in mint condition. I felt that even if they never increased in value... I could re-number the extra car. I also was NOT buying every car available... only the ones I liked for my myself and usually they were western railroads. Of course, if a 'purdy-look'n one' happened to turn-up... I'd get it too. So... you're wondering... how I "turned into a 'collector'". I used to buy only the cheapest rolling stock available. Several retailers had been 'pushing' the Micro-Trains rolling stock for a few years. I would tell them I could buy more than double the quantity in Atlas, ConCor, Roco etc. Eventually, one of the retailers showed me a "Sootsmans Guide"... and told me a car I had looked at several months earlier [and DIDN'T buy]... was listed in the guide as recently sold at 4x the MSRP. Up to that point... I was indifferent about future value... other than I could sell it at a flea market. The idea that Micro-Trains had an inherant value not seen in other brands of n scale rolling stock... so I got hooked. What I feel killed this added market value was a confluence of events in the mid 1990's. 1] As mentioned before... eBay seemed to make the availabilty of these models not quite as scarce as once believed. After-all... Micro-Trains was very hush-hush about production and gave the impression of extremely limited runs. 2] Better or equal quality rolling stock from Intermountain Railway Co. Though only a few car types[mainly box cars at first]... They had opening doors... grab irons, knuckle couplers... and most of all multiple roadnumber readily available. Though inferior in some aspects to Micro-trains... it showed that other competitors were out there and that MT no longer had the exclusive 'best' rolling stock. As more items were release by other manufacturers... the vise-grip MT had on the rolling stock market began to falter. 3] Micro-Trains shoots itself in the foot... so to speak. They already were putting out 'sort-of' fantasy rolling stock because they used a standard bodystyle which looked similar to some equipment they were painting for major railroads or companies. That was an accepted and known practice in its day. However, when Micro-Trains moved to their new facility in Talent Oregon... suddenly a plethora of fantasy schemes begin to materialize. The perception that MT was now pandering to collectors more-so than diehard model railroaders eroded the 'fan-base' further. If they could make all of these collectable models... they must be able to produce far more models than once believed... leading more to the fact that previously run car really were not so rare... and now they are capable of making even MORE quantity. I began to curtail my appetite for Micro-trains somewhat after the turn of the millenium... chosing instead Atlas, Intermountain and others more realistic models. Micro-Trains still has the most bodystyles of any of the N scale manufacturers... and they still make [IMHO] the best couplers in the industry... but its not a lock... as it was pre 1990.
LOL...hahaha Marty... at least there is hope for your collection of baseball cards because they go back far enough where they are actually somewhat rare. As for me... I got caught up in the same baseball collecting trap of the 1990's and have about that many totally useless cards which will eventually be known as the 'Steroid Era' in sports. I figure when we run out of fossil fuels... these cards will be valuable to keep me warm on cold winter nights as I feed them into the fireplace. Who knows... might have to do that with the Micro-trains too... BURN BABY BURN!
And all this is why I frequently promote the use of the word "accumulator." It gets us completely away of the usual tiresome "collector vs. runner" arguments and vitriol (although I don't see much of it on this thread). I think Bob Knight's view is spot on with one addition: Besides the paper-based auctions not being transparent about the bidding process, they also restricted supply. That XY&Z boxcar was only offered once per auction at most, and usually less frequently. Today, if an XY&Z boxcar goes for an unusual price on eBay, there are very quickly other copies made available in most cases, to capitalize on the "high collector price." These copycat listings can result in, well, much lower results.
Well, this weekend I am heading to a local railroad show with over a hundred N scale cars, buildings and Kato track and a bunch of HO. All of the items are either brand new or slightly used and Atlas, Micro Trains, Intermountain, Athearn cars or Walthers (strurtures)...good quality stuff. Because this is basically a Train show I am not sure what the percentage of N scale folks will show up, but the prices will be $5. or $10. a car with structures at $20. My plan is for folks to get quality items at a better than fair cost and in return I get a little cash. Hopefully, it will help some of those starting off in the hobby as well as those who could use a bargain in these tough times. Looking back over the years there was a couple of fantastic surprises where I obtained a lot of quality equipment for very little cost and it's time to allow others to have that same joy. It will be interesting to see the response. Barry
