Hello all... I'd like to chime in on my observations about this model (I searched 'another forum' for a thread, found one, read it, and got REAL 'turned off' at the negative, disgust-filled diatribe by a few that, apparently look for opportunities to comment negatively on manufacturers rather than discussing the merits of the actual model- isn't this a hobby?) I read the forums for information...I love having the forums, as a forum(!), to share accuracy, techniques, historical info, etc...opinion of manufacturers' business plan, quality control, etc...all have a place here...I just think it would be better to keep them in a separate thread created, specifically, for the purpose of discussing them, rather than motivating, and 'coloring' the discussion on the shape, accuracy, running quality, etc of the model being discussed... All that being said...and i know i'm opening a can of worms here... ...but... I'd like to hear others' opinions on this release... so far, here's mine... I didn't purchase this model from it's original issue by Life-Like...I had owned a few LL items during their last few years of N scale releases, and had noticed that they were significantly improving their mechanisms....their E units went through a strange progression, even taking a backwards step, with the E6 releases, and, although I didn't own any of these either, I understood that the Erie-built mechanisms were top notch. I was perusing the MD etailer site one day, and saw this one listed in Santa Fe, took a chance, and purchased it... I knew that this one, the DL-109, may have been a little early for my era, but, the pics of the unit made it almost irresistible... The unit runs flawlessly, a beautiful slow speed mechanism, beautiful paint, very sharp, crisp lettering (apart from the cigar band, which is slightly askew on my example)... Based on the photos I had acquired, Santa Fe gave their one example the 'standard' covered wagon nose treatment-added center headlight; and, similarly to their early E's, the E3 and E6's, some extra stainless vents added to the large aesthetic windows, in addition to a few other places.... Although originally purchased to test, it was used (with it's booster, DL-110) as power on a Super Chief, I believe....ran fast and great, until Raton, with it's 3.5% grades...after that, it stayed around Argentine, pulling trains like the Kansas Cityean, the Tulsean, etc...flatland country... What I DIDN'T know, was that this unit hung around , in service, until 1960!... No doubt that it is a distinctive, strange, art-deco, Buck Rogers looking unit, almost a caricature of the covered wagons that were to come...and it paved the way for units purchased later (apparently their performance didn't preclude Santa Fe from buying the classic Alco Pa's) so, although it's rare bird, by anyone's standard, it is a fairly significant locomotive, certainly within Alco's history of diesel units, apparently, ran a significant amount of miles for the Railroads that owned them. Santa Fe's ran over 3 million miles! love it , hate it...why did Walthers release it?...why didn't release this? why haven't they released that?...whatever.... I want to hear others' opinions....I've already started modifying mine to portray it's appearance in 1957...I've added the center nose light, and extended the upper headlight (these mods give the unit an even more pronounced 'caricature' nose), and I've even decided that, to achieve the level of detail and accuracy I want in all of my locomotives and rolling stock, i'm going to delve into photo-etching a stainless steel fret to really dress this unit up (I'm going to do the same for the LL E3 and E6 locos I have in the queue.) Something i've found interesting, albeit, somewhat strange about this release....there is no skirting between the trucks, covering the fuel tank, as on the prototype...Walthers (LL?) has a very nice detailed fuel and water tank (?). and other assorted equipment molded there, a nice touch, considering it's exposed for lack of skirts. was the original release by Life-Like similar? Did it also run as smoothly as this one? Here is the unit posed; I've already painted the trucks with Tamiya Flat Aluminum, removed the cigar band with 70% alcohol (I'll touch up the red and blend it into the existing color-I'll go a little further and remove the vertical black striping on the wide yellow stripe-I'll repaint the yellow stripe, then add black pin striping when I add the new cigar band), and the new headlight shapes are in place Here are pics of the headlights in their place...they'll be faired, a little more, with applications of 'Mr. Surfacer', openings reamed to a more accurate thickness, the the edges will be rounded. The paint is crisp...I love the effect of the chromed edges of the windows over the warbonnet red Here's a pic of the fuel tank detail...pretty nice. Thanks, ~Bruce PS-yes, I'd like to see Erie Builts from them...not gonna hold my breath...not gonna rant if they don't.
Here are pics of the Santa Fe Dl-109 in it's last years...the center headlight id prominent, as are the added stainless vents added to various window locations, as well as right behind the cab door... also evident, the new cigarband, with the 'SANTA FE' lettering moved to two places, both sides of the center headlight (the Microscale sheet provides this style of cigarband as well... The units look a little worse for wear here....the gloss from the red has faded, although the red color hasn't so much...the yellow on the headlights has really dirtied up...these will be the most weathered locomotives in my roster; even the freight F's will only feature dust and desert dirt. as a side note to those of us that criticize the huge pilot gaps that some manufacturers' still have...look at the gaping maw of this one!...that huge coupler pilot opening is prototypical here! I'm going to search pics of other Railroads Dl-109's to see how these differed. Thanks, ~Bruce
I love it! I have a Rock Island DL109 that I am going to use to pull my Golden State, whenever I get around to making the rest of the cars, just wish I had a DL110 to go with it! Maybe I'll try to make a 3D printed shell for the DL110....
arbomambo mentioned the N scale DL-109s "original release by LifeLife." I believe Concor released the first N scale DL-109. I don't know if it would be considered the same "model", whether it shares anything with the LifeLike or Walthers loco except the prototype... I've got one, plan to run it someday when I have a layout with passenger-size curves. arbomambo asked "why did Walthers release it?" I think this is another of those cases where a model manufacturer came out with something because it is an odd bird. Many modelers want odd one-of-a-kind items and manufacturers make them, instead of subtle variations that showed up with hundreds of copies on the real railroaders, that some modelers would want oh so much.
Thanks for posting Bruce. The model really looks sharp, and from the looks of the prototype photo's, it looks like the skirt could be added as part of the frame (its a shame that the great looking tanks would have to be hidden with the skirt). And loved the proto pic showing the gaping pilot opening for the coupler!! Robert
The Rock didn't have any DL-XXX "B" units (DL-110 or DL-108), but if you want one anyway you could strip/repaint one of the old Hallmark brass models (provided you could find one). Cheers, -Mark
I like the Walthers/Lifelike DL-109. I can say that it is one of the best running and better pulling engines in my collection. I believe my two Milwaukee road engines 14AB are from the first run from Lifelike. I like what you have done to your ATSF engines !! I have a few other DL109's saved to convert to PRR passenger sharks as soon as a body shell appears... Randy
As far as I can recall, you are correct. Back early 1980's, the C-C (Kato) version should have been first.
Nice overview of the model you've presented. I do find it interesting that they omitted the skirting by the fuel tank, although I suspect it would not be hard to fabricate from sheet styrene (assuming you're so inclined).
Philip R. Hastings photographed Santa Fe DL-109 #50 with an E7 booster bringing the Ranger through Houston, Texas toward Galveston in July 1948. (Railfan & Railroad, November 1979 p.38-39.) The Ranger was then the secondary train over the same route as the Texas Chief. #50 and an unmatching booster (NOT 50A) are shown pulling the Chicagoan across Sibley Bridge over the Missouri River, year unknown, in Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail p.402. The same photo is printed with a Santa Fe diesel roster in Railroad magazine, August 1971 p.54. #50 is shown as a lone unit followed by a head-end car at San Bernadino in 1952, in Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail p.438. The single power unit suggests a short passenger consist, perhaps the San Bernadino Local.
They didn't omit anything. This is a model of a DL109. The ATSF is a DL107, and of all the DLs, I think the Santa Fe was the only one to have skirts. Lot's of other small differences between the two as well. Jason
Good to know, Jason. I'll freely admit my ignorance on the locomotive models and ATSF history, so oops on me...
Bruce, very nice review of the unit. I snatched up two ATSF units when the Walthers version came out recently - A #50L and (in my mind) #50A, two A units tail to tail when I run them together. These nicely complete the set when you display all of the early Santa Fe streamline diesels together (DL-109, Erie Built, PA/PB, FT, E3, E6, E8, F3, F7). One gripe, I can't see your photos. Whatever service you are using to host them is being blocked by the hospital I work at here. Same is true of all of your threads. Still hoping to see your Santa Fe Room pics someday.
I'm kinda struck by the rectangular windows as opposed to round portholes you usually see on these type of locomotives. I think it added character The grills just look so plain to me...:-(
Bruce, I'm sure you'll do a fine job with this. For comparison, here's the Concor unit from many years ago. The "B" I made by splicing two shells... Lord, I got to do something about the coupler; it's been years since I looked at this set. Otto K.
glennac, I use photobucket...if you pm me I can arrange to sens some pics (anything you needed) to your email.... I don't have too many sources; I recently acquired the Lloyd Stagner "in color" books and was pleasantly surprised to see some treatment of this AND the E3/E6's! My original motivation to aquire this one was similar to yours...being able to pose the Santa Fe warbonnets together...only later did I discover that this unit survived in service through my era...a nice bonus. at the moment, I'm only aware of Santa Fe owning the one cab unit and the one booster, 50 and 50A (Santa Fe called them a DL-109 and a DL-110 respectively). Otto, those are nice!...something I've noticed, and one of the reasons I labeled this Walther's a re-release of the 'original' Life-Like release; the older ConCor/Kato releases have different detailing, for one, the large vents on the side of the unit is different than on the Life-Like/Walthers unit...the Life-Like/Walthers units also has the separate, detailed fuel/water, battery tank...(it appears that the large vent screens on the units you have are more accurate for the actual Santa Fe units) a Quick search through the internet reveals all kinds of various differences within the small production run of these units...their being built as various model numbers (the DL-107,109, etc example posted earlier) makes sense to me, after seeing the differences in units used by different roads; the Rock Island units have the COOLEST art-deco styling of the headlight! The Santa Fe cab unit was individually unique as well; the dual headlight, etc...so I still haven't determined if the Walthers version represents a particular version (the New Haven and Southern units appear real close, IMO) blending and fairing the headlights, repainting the nose, and adding the new herald and striping decals will be relatively easy; to model this Santa Fe unit to the level that I really want, will require photo-etch additions...and, as I stated before, this is going to send me into new territory...developing and commissioning (or doing it myself! ARgggghhh) a specific photo-etch fret, designed for this ATSF specific locomotive . (and again, I will definitely want to do this for the E3 and E6 builds) Skirts can be easily manufactured from styrene, but, if I'm going to go the photo-etch detail route, I'll probably include skirts in the fret. Thanks, ~Bruce
Bruce, sounds like quite the project! There were so many subtle and not so subtle changes over the life of these units that having era specific photos will be essential to work from, especially if you want to take it to the next level. Seems to me that the older these units got, the less sleek they were, but made up for it with "personality".... I also find it interesting that unlike other passenger units, they kept a single headlight configuration until relatively late: enclosing a photo of a shiny 50 taken at San Bernardino in 1952 (!) on a local (perhaps breaking in after heavy shopping in SB shops?) with most of the mods apparent but still a single headlight. (Photo courtesy of Jack Whitmeyer collection). The second photo is undated but probably close to your era, with the monster headlight and Santa Fe now spelled out on each side. Have fun and keep the progress pics coming! Regards, Otto K.
