The new LEDs arrived yesterday. While the SunLED XLVGMYK59M YEL-GRN LEDs were brighter mcd [YEL-597(250) GRN-198(80)] than the NTEs, and in dark settings could work, the current required still exceeds 2mA. The RED-GRN Bicolor KingBright WP59SURKZGW, performed much better, requiring approximately the same current, 600uA, as the RGB KingBrights above producing the same perceivable brightness when green but with slightly lower RED intensity. Think at this point, the R-G Kingbrights will be used if going to use these for turnout signals. Another aspect of using these as signals is scale, 5mm in n is approx 33", resulting in, kinda looking weird especially the LED lens, however will probably forego worrying about scale for function. Thinking that making them shorter and painting them black instead of silver, may help appear smaller? Going to paint one black to see. Or, maybe scrap the whole approach and do something different....
What 3mm LEDs or even SMD though they may be hard to see angle wise? But forget about the LEDs, tell us more about the snow scene!
gee.. The snow scene.... History... The snowy winter scene originated upon stumbling on this wonderful video in Sept of 20 which I absolutely love. Initially going to be a 24" dia circle around a small live Christmas tree, the kind that Lowes sells ever year. But after seeing DCC EX, decided to do a seasonal, non-commercial, snowy winter scene on a full layout. The thinking, working on a winter layout in the middle of the sweltering summers in FL, might have some psychological cooling effect. Had a snow fall last July during a 99 deg and 80% humidity day and it was nice.. lol As with many of the dumb ideas I've had, originally wanted to be like nature and so non-winter ground covering was the first layer, eq: green woodland scenics grass, ballast, and then place snow on top. What a mistake.... Guess either didn't wait long enough and/or seal properly, but the colors leached into the top layer of snow. Fortunately, it was mostly the mountain which needed a re-design anyway. Scraped up all the scenery material, and re-painted the WS shaper sheet and pink foam with Behr white ceiling paint using its adhesive properties when sprinkling the Woodland snow on top of it when wet. The mountain was totally redone. Ballast is used for the side roads. It is placed on top of the wht painted foam sans the snow. Used both Elemers glue all and Modge Podge mat.. Didn't think the Modge podge was "mat" when comparing to the less expensive Elmers. The partially snow covered gravel roads appear to have snow on top but only due to small scale and is a visual trick. Upon close-up, one can see the "gravel" on top of the white instead of the way nature does it.. The paved roads are painted .04 styrene. Only "temporary" snow falls on the paved roads, roof tops. Snow banks are caulk beads painted white with flake on top. The Pine trees have a light coating of wht spray paint and the branch snow bunches are dabs of wht paint. Same technique with the tree armatures. All structures are removable leaving only their "foundations" making it a bit easier for snow falls in addition to using on other layouts.. As much as expansion options were desired, fortunately closed that door. Keeping it white and clean is a chore.. Especially in between the rails since both the tops and the inner sides of the rails get cleaned for smooth slow prototypical speeds. Multiple snow falls (another coat of paint and flakes) has occurred a few times since creating the layout. Another problem is both white glues have started to yellow which most likely would be less noticeable when used on darker surfaces. Just moved in Nov, and the trees were removed before boxing the layout last June, so another heavy snowfall occurred when setting up in Dec. Washed the trees and added a Bunch more (non-glue) and WOW, there is nothing like the contrast enjoyed with the fresh dark greens of the trees against a new snowfall. Also, sprinkled snow over areas where the intent was not to be permanent.. A freshly done winter snow scene is hard to beat. The trees were removed again last month. Little cumbersome to install the Peco NB-45 fencing shown in the background of the signal LEDs pic above with a bunch of trees in the way. Also have some Atlas hairpin fencing for the station to install as well as shrubbery. May just make trees non-permanent to simplify thorough future snowfalls... Of course the addition of the fencing, which is firmly glued down, will complicate future snow falls. The following video, made during Christmas, shows best the beauty of a freshly snowed winter scene.
Mark, looks like your layout needs regular maintenance from Father Nature (you)! Job well done! It's just so different and often not down. As for the signal LED, I had a typo in my post above. I was trying to ask you what ABOUT (<- left this out) 3mm or SMD LEDs to make the signals less intrusive size wise.
Sorry, saw that but forgot to include.... Looked initially at 3mm however YEL-GRN are really scarce but there 2 problems, intensity and physical dimensions... Didn't look at RED_GRN 3mm at that time though. Physically, 2 of the 3 leads of a 3mm bicolor extend beyond flange bottom diameter resulting in not being able to insert into round plastic pylon unless its oversized... as compared to the 5mm... Even the 5mm tri-color LED with 4 leads (each covered with 1/32 heat shrink to prevent shorting) fit as shown in above pylon pics. Would consider smd but how to arrange for at least a 35-50 deg viewing angle and mounting into some sort of pylon?? Thought about taking a few of the 603s, very bright output with minimal current 200-400uA, and trying to arrange for viewing angles. Any ideas? The original Kingbright RGBs, unlike the newer ones, are interesting because the intensity outputs for both RED and GRN are pretty close with the same current flowing thru the respective path enabling use of only 1 current limiting resistor in the common cathode line. At this point can accept using the new RED-GRN BiColor Kingbrights by lowering the common cathode resistance to increase the weaker RED output but also adding a 2nd current resistor in the GRN anode connection to lower and equalize intensity. The RG Kingbrights angle dispersion pattern is not as good as its older RGB cousin so this may help. The green output intensity for both Kingbrights can actually be reduced - looks too bright in a dark room. LOL The additional resistor will make insertion of the LED into pylon more difficult but still should go thru. Going to give a little more time to find another solution and/or try to hunt down 2 more of the old Kingbright RGBs.
Mounting an SMD on a pylon like what you show in your previous pics with the 3mm LED would be easy using some UV glue to create a lens or bubble/globe around the LED. Gob on some uv glue to create the globe around the LED then cure. Make sure to shape the leads before you cure so that they extend away from the face of the LED. Then run the leads of the LED through the tube, draw the globe you made to the pylon with some more UV glue to bond the globe to the tube and cure that as well. The 602 Tri-Color SMDs are very intense with a 12V power supply and 1K resistors on each leg. I use several of these in my target style signals and the intensity between the colors is excellent/indistinguishable from one to the next.
That's a great idea to explore. Thank you. Would you say that adding the globe helps in a more even distribution of light? Also interested in your experience with the 602s. Do you have a link to the page of the ones you are using. They look pretty cool and most of the rectangular form factors appear in cursory research to have incredible dispersion angles, all in excess of 100 deg.
It helps a little but the LEDs themselves are pretty adequate in getting the light out. The glue cures clear like glass so if anything it acts more as a lens. The ones I use in my signals come from showcase miniatures. https://www.showcaseminiatures.net/paint_tools/led/LED0001.html Evan designs sells one as well. https://evandesigns.com/collections/hobby-leds/products/signal-led-red-yellow-green The ones from showcase use very fine leads which require a bit of care to ensure they don't break while handling. Evan design magnet leads are a bit more robust. Just make sure on the latter before you bend the leads to stabilize the solder connections to the LED so you don't stress those out. My trick when doing that is to sandwich the LED in a pair of hemostats then gently bend the leads.
Thank you for the info and links. Those micro LEDs definitely can work though still intrigued with the glue globe thing.
Glob - globe same diff One just uses the effects of surface tension in liquids to their advantage. I wish I had a better pic but below is one time where I built up glue around the LED to replace the one from the stock light board. This did help to diffuse the light to more evenly over the number boards. Note the yellow rectangle and you might be able to make out the clear looking bulb around it.
Thanks for the pic. Wow, from what can be seen, the globe or glob looks great and nicely "rounded". Have some spare 603s that would be good to test the technique. In the meantime and since already had the Red-Grn LEDs, made the LED connections. As it turns out, the combination of a 3k (series 2k and 1k) in series with cathode and 5k in series with green anode results in a fairly equal brightness between the 2 colors. The red draws about 1000uA or 1 mA and grn 307uA. Would have preferred a lower forward current on the red side but still respectable. LEDs terminated with 40cm M-F (female end cutoff) Dupont for Arduino connection. The first one made was tested for ease to pull thru pylon and just fit. Went on and did the rest. Plan on mounting in a "semi-permanent" way to allow for future change. Unfortunately, due to moving and such, been behind and want to get the street lights mounted (bought 2 years ago) and structures under DCC control. These items like the signals require turning layout upside down since no longer interested in wiring upside down. These LEDs eliminates the immediate need and allows further investigation (practice) to the "globe" formation technique and options for pylon type mounting.
Well, the signals are in and they will definitely be temporary. While the 5mm thru-hole LEDs are great because they can be seen from just about any vertical angle and/or horizontal position, think they are just too big. Certainly though, the red and green is in season... LOL Going to pursue bicolor 606 form factor. Thinking that facing it up in a pylon however would require bending andits wires at a 90 deg and somehow hiding the wires exiting. In the interim, have spare warm white 603s so curious to test when positioning up, then use the globe approach recommended by @freddy_fo depending on outcome. Used the 603s in lit bumpers and brightness more than enough..
I know I am late to the party, but whether or not the switches need signals depends on what the tracks lead to. If they tracks lead to yard tracks or industries then they wouldn't necessarily have signals on them. When there are multiple routes the signals will generally have multiple heads (a head is a group of colored lights.) This is the point where you have to decide whether you want prototypical signals, signals that just indicate switch positions or pretty colored lights. Any is a valid option, prototypical systems are much more complex and have many more options. Your best bet is to get a rule book or signal chart for the railroad you are interested in or pick one you want to follow. That's because every railroad had it's own twist on signals and while there are a couple general variations for signals (speed signals vs. route signals) the details can vary between roads.
Thank you for your input and definitely not too late.... Need all the input possible. This is like the 3rd time since starting the layout where function is decided on over form (or prototypical). Admittedly have no knowledge of train ops but after some research over the last six months it became apparent that the typical signals sold like commercial ones I posted earlier are really for speed as shown in the CNJ chart posted earlier rather than turnout indication. Moreover, viewing from angle is questionable? Yes, the ability to view the turnout signal from any operating angle or side is most important. The turnout signal pictures upon googling appear to have a round face with indicators across but if had to make a guess, the view of the signal declines as one moves off center and may not show at all beyond 60 deg. The thru hole form factor LEDs have an omni-direction like radiation pattern which meets the prime directive.
Well, no decision for signal indicators... Wrote to Evans including pic of signals. Customer service suggested use of fiber lit by mounting the bicolor LEDs on the layout's bottom side and passing the fiber to the top side thru the pylon. Question is thinking how to terminate. Evans sells a side "lite" fiber piece but some research elsewhere seems to indicate fiber is hard to see in well lit rooms. Quite intrigued by idea though, maybe for some other application. In the meantime and a little off topic, redid entire electrical lighting distribution while also running structure LEDs to Arduino Mega data pins for individual or sectional DCC control. This is perhaps, the messiest part. There are no commercially available breakout for the Mega's 36pin digital I/O header so it gets a little hairy... LOL But best of all, the street lights and station parking lot lights are finally installed. Yea!!! The Engine Driver route buttons shown below.. By design, the tower is the only structure that lights on system powerup. You known, trains can't run unless the tower is manned. The All Lights On button is coded to sequentially turn on lights over time using simple DELAYs or one can control individually if desired. The Christmas tree stand workers don't open the same time everyday so the EX Rail DELAYRANDOM( min_delay, max_delay ) is used in the All Lights On route. Guess there are others like myself who sometimes just want to watch their trains run.. It was really cool last night to watch both the BLI F3 and SD35 locos in DCC EX automations then after starting them, hit the All Lights On button about a minute into the automations and watch that execute too. Awesome!
Finally decided on signals. The European style signals shown below ended up being the best compromise among cost, look and custom work factors. Reflection was one aspect that was overlooked when determining current limiting resistors for setting the LEDs brightness for the original, excessively large, 5mm LEDs. The white snow covered landscape reflects more color than the previous testing when just placing LEDs on a tabletop. A white landscape was made for evaluation. Yes, not prototypical for US railroad but at $5 each, think they will fit nicely on layout.
