I do not understand this urge to thank the manufacturers for manufacturing stuff. If they wanted a Laurel and a Hardy handshake, then they should have joined the peace corp. You thank them by buying their product. If they get their little feelers hurt when their buyers aren't perfectly satisfied... well, perhaps consumer goods aren't the market they should be in. Which is not to say you should be mean and nasty to them, but come on. I don't thank safeway or P&G everytime I go in to buy diapers.
Because positive feedback is, well....positive. Telling them they did a good job encourages them to continue down that path. The people behind our toys are people and have emotions. They are not just machines pumping out product. You don't believe in positive reinforcement? Product sales are no longer an idicator if the product is any good or not. The manufactures only know if a product sold and in todays world, the first batch is usually sold out to the distributors from the get go. We are lucky if there is another batch to guage sales from.
If buying their products and thus helping to generate revenue isn't thanks enough, then they are in the wrong business. At the same time, no amount of thanks is going to make up for a product not being profitable. Maybe you thank company X for making that product. Write a nice long letter about how great it was....but you're the only one that bought the product. That thank you letter isn't going to keep them from going bankrupt. This is business. Helping them generate revenue will make them happy enough. I mean sure, if you are just over the moon with joy at a product's quality, then do send a note in, but it should be an exception, not a rule. Again, the executives at Pampers like positive reinforcement too, but when they start doing their quarterly numbers, all that matters is how many diapers they've sold. Same holds for MR manufacturers. Acting like a bunch of thank you notes is going to suddenly make a Pennsy loco more appealing to the manufacturer is silly. At the same time, if you piss and moan about everything a manufacturer does, but still buy their stuff like crazy, then they should have the intestinal fortitude to handle it. After all, you've actually contributed to their bottom line. I don't mean to derail this thread, but it's a line of reasoning I've seen posted on forums before and it blows my mind. It's one thing if we're talking about small side business manufacturers, but the big loco makers? no thank you. They don't need to be coddled. They need people to buy product and that's all they need or care about.
After Kato put out the Super Chief in N scale I happened by their booth at a train show. I stopped in and thanked them profusely and groveled a bit as I mentioned that I would like an El Capitan. It seemed to work that time for some reason. And I take full responsibility.
I stopped by the Athearn booth at the WGH Traveling Show in SLC late last year and had a very discouraging talk with their rep (Mike) about more N scale engines...particularly about producing them in the same order as they have done their HO scale ones (hoping for an FEF next). He was very matter-of-fact about how it "costs just as much to tool up for an N scale engine as it does for an HO engine, but we make less money on it". I asked him why Athearn didn't make another run of Big Boys and Challengers since all the tooling was already done? He said "We'll be making another run on Big Boys and Challengers in a year and a half". He also said that they have no plans for manufacturing ANY new N scale engines in the future. I told him he was missing the boat, since Athearn Big Boys were going (in some cases) for more than a thousand bucks on eBay, and I had sold two of mine for more than $850! About two months later, Athearn announces they're running Big Boys and Challengers again...and they'll be on the shelves in October/September. That's MUCH less than a year and a half from what Mike the Athearn rep told me! I didn't compliment him at all. I griped at him, and gave him a logical argument that they should start looking at the N-scale forums and blogs if they really wanted to get their marketing correct. And, I left the conversation shaking my head in disgust. Guess what I said had some effect! So, I will take credit for Athearn re-running Big Boys and Challengers sooner than we expected. Thank you...Thank you very much... Cheers! Bob Gilmore
If you can actually get the ear of a manufacturer at a trade show, then that's something a little different, you can have a 2 way conversation face to face.
How is that different than a two way e-mail conversation? I can't believe how callous an attitude some people have toward businesses. They are people too. I think the banking debockle and events such as Enron have hardened people to believe that everybody is out to screw them. It just isn't true. BTW- Your comment about Pampers - We have participated in quite few marketing surveys testing Pampers for P&G when our son was young. They love to hear the good about their diapers and can be generous we receiving praise. Last off topic comment from myself: This is getting silly now. Give praise where praise is due, let them know when it is wrong also. Voting with your wallet and not buying a product only tells the manufacture that the product doesn't sell. It doesn't tell them why it doesn't sell. Was it a poor road name choice, poor choice of loco version, or did the thing look and run like crap? They don't know unless you talk to them. The same with a good seller...did it sell out because of the road, the model or just that it was an excellent runner. They want to know which so they can repeat on that success.
We weren't talking about constructive criticism or marketing feedback which of course is initiated by the manufacturer. We were talking about praising then like you would a puppy. The problem i have is people suggesting an attaboy is needed when a complaint might be more helpful. And, not to get political, but I don't think calling a company the same as people is a universally held belief.
"I stopped by the Athearn booth at the WGH Traveling Show in SLC late last year and had a very discouraging talk with their rep (Mike) about more N scale engines...particularly about producing them in the same order as they have done their HO scale ones (hoping for an FEF next). He was very matter-of-fact about how it "costs just as much to tool up for an N scale engine as it does for an HO engine, but we make less money on it". This brings up a good point. The tooling costs for an N scale engine approximate those for a HO engine but an HO engine sells for more than an N scale engine [and the HO market is also bigger than the N scale market]. Now with just that information it seems like it is a no brainer, doesn't it? Concentrate on HO. The manufacturers have an incentive to not produce N scale items because it would take away from their HO scale sales. Look at the PRR K4. Nevermind that four other manufacturers have recently done a PRR K4 in HO while in N scale the only K4 has been out of production for almost 20 years and there is no competition. So what happened? A fifth manufacturer produced a PRR K4 in HO. Somehow the competition factor doesn't seem to apply. Also, it has been said before; HO has the best availability and that causes more people to go into HO than N. One of the benefits of being an Ntrakker is that you get to hear from a lot of people at shows that you would never hear from in your basement or trainroom. And I have had a lot of people tell me that they were in HO but would rather be in N scale because they could do more in the same space. The reason they are not in N scale is what they model is just not made in N scale. So here is my point. The manufacturers, regardless of the competition factor, really have no incentive to match in N scale what they produce in HO. The majority of the people will go to the scale where they can get what they want and that is HO not N scale. What N scale needs is a new manufacturer to produce those heretofore HO only models in N scale thereby changing the game. Without that it will be the same old, same old.
I missed this on my first read of the post. So what you are telling us is that Athearn was not aware of the market demand for their own products but once they were aware they changed their production schedule to accomodate the market. This does not say much for the manufacturers market research efforts. I mean, what does it take to monitor your products on EBAY? So when manufacturers say Pennsy does not sell why would [or should] anyone believe them?
Because they're the ones who would have to put up the money to bring said product to market? This doesn't mean it wouldn't sell, but no one has been willing to take the financial risk. It will probably take another company whose chief has a keen interest in PRR steam to make a RTR model happen (like FVM with Milwaukee Road). I'm curious what the experience of Broadway Limited tells us. They may be a flaky company, but they have brought N scale products to market. Why have they not pulled the trigger on the M1? Presumably a lack of sufficient pre-orders?
I know Bob would like to take credit for the loco's but the real reason that the Big Boy and Challenger are coming is that Genesis product is all Athearn can produce currently. At the time, their standard line tooling was locked up in a bankruptcy dispute with the former producer in China. Athearn had just got the Genesis program switched over to a new manufacture before the colapse of the standard line stuff. They had a facility ready to produce product and no other N scale products to produce. It was a natural to fill a time slot with a high demand N scale loco. You wont see any Athearn standard line production till the end of the year at the earliest.
Hehe...Yeah...Like I really believe I was responsible! However, I suppose sometimes a bankruptcy can be good thing!! Looks like it forced Athearn's hand...and so...Big Boys and Challengers...with Athearn grinding their teeth at the thought all the time!! It would have been "natural" to produce them even without a Chinese bankruptcy forcing their hand considering the demand and the highly inflated prices POS MRC Big Boys and Challengers were bringing on eBay. But...they hadn't seen it and were unaware of that fact if the rep's (Mike) reaction to what I told him was any indication of what their marketing dept. knows...if they even HAVE a marketing department! Cheers! Bob Gilmore
To be sure it was lack of preorders. But two big issues here. First, we don't know what their magic number was. Second, BLI [PCM really] was a new company with no track record. A lot of people weren't willing to plunk down serious cash with out some evidence of just what type of quality they were getting. They got mixed reviews on their E units. I heard via rumor mill that the M1 is not dead and we may see it in 2013. I am not getting my hopes up though. Refer to the first post in this thread to see what PRR steam has been announced in HO. Writing on the wall says if you want to model PRR then get out of N scale and go HO. I know people who have done just that.
Well that is not true. First of all Athearn has announced new products in both the Genesis line as well as its regular line. Secondly the N scale bigboy and challenger are not identified on Athearn's web site as part of the Genesis line. Thirdly according to Athearn's web site you won't see anything, Genesis or regular line, before the end of the year. Athearn reminds me of the Western equivalent of Bowser Co. Athearn took over the MDC Roundhouse and ran the 40 foot hoppers in both ribside and offset. They are all sold out according to Athearn. Never rerun. Bowser did the same to Delaware Valley. Delaware had a nice cylindrical hopper. It was run once then seemingly disappearred into a black hole. In both cases these were nice models that did not compewte with any product of Athearn or Bowser. Why do they buy these companies if they have no intention of using the tooling assets to make products? Seems like a waste of money.
Why would Athearn identify anything N scale as "Genesis"? Isn't that their premium HO line? This doesn'tmake any sense. Whatever they call them, the Big Boys and Challengers are nicely detailed. If N scale is causing this much anguish it may be time to start doing some HO.
Inky, Check your facts. There hasn't been a standard line product announced since January, and that was Roundhouse HO passenger cars which may or may not be under the standard line. The last true standard line "ready to roll" items were in December. The Challenger and Big Boy were announced in March, about a month after we found out that Athearn had lost their standard line production facility. You can double check the facts here.. http://www.athearn.com/AthearnNews/ The Challenger and BigBoy come from the same production line as the other Genesis products, come in the same blue box w/gold foil lettering, and same packaging style. They don't call them Genesis in N scale because they simply never drew that line and created a "high line" N scale series but be sure, they are a Genesis level product. The new Genesis production line started up in April I believe so early next year is about the lead time it takes to start from scratch and get a product across the ocean into US distributors hands.
