Jerry, I have a few concenrs in your design, I know that you want to model this area but with so many tunnels you are going to have a great deal of hidden areas. Will the tunnel sections be removable in case of track work problems etc? All in all this will be an interesting layout to build
Colonel, I had already addressed that. The only hidden track will be tunnels 100 feet or shorter, in scale length. Which coincidently, is only Tunnel 29, which is the exit to west staging, so it may only be a portal, and a scenic block. All other tunnels will have removable tops.
I guess the only other crticism is that there doesnt seem to be enough indusrty for switching etc? I know you are wanting to capture the feel of the are but do you think thereis enough to keep you occupied? As you know my layout is a large dogbone loop which is great for continuus running but it does getting a little monotonous after a while, when I do extend the layout I will ensure lots more industry. I'm not trying to be too critical I just thought I'd give you something to think about. When are you planning to begin the layout? I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.
*Homer drool* Man that's going to be some layout,all that rock work & pines,mmmmm,how about some pine oil under the layout some where to give it that out doors high mntn smell too? As per Paul's points,maybe you could consider a double decker,'if' you want switching as well. but have the hiden staging yard as a elevator between the two decks,I asume the train lengths will be made to fit on the staging yard?If so you could make up a train in Denver on the lower deck,run it through to staging yard,traverse up to Tunnel dist. deck & off you go!No grades,helix's just flat running,only thing is your trains will be set to staging yard length,or you could always double the train....just a thought.
Wow, that is a wild trackplan. And I though I was minimalistic with sidings and yards . . . that plan is another order of magnitude true to the prototype than anything I've seen!
As much as I like yards, and switching, I prefer to run trains. The real Moffat route has no online industries between the Rocky Flats area, and Moffat Tunnel. I have a layout designed for switching, and I don't do any switching. I run trains in circles. It's more fun for me. The 2 sidings will make moving slow, heavy manifests & coal loads among the ultra-high-priority Railblazer, CZ, and Ski Train much more challenging, froma dispatching perspective. After seeing the Moffat route in action many times, and getting feel for how the DS moves trains up and down the mountain, I feel I'll have my hands full. The spurs I have included, Crags, Quartz, and Miramonte, are all long since removed. I am including them as flag stops for varnish trains. Not only is there very little room to model the sheer cliffs, and vertical scenery, there is no room for indistries. The house tracks at Crescent and Plain sidings will be used for bad-order setouts, and work trains. The main idea for the layout is BIG mountain scenery, rugged mountain railroading, and running trains. The switching ops for bad orders, and work extras will dissipate the monotony. The trains will adhere to strict speed limits, and infrequent rockslides, blizzards, bad-orders, hotboxes, and sunkink slow-orders will be imposed at the dispatcher's fancy to spice operations up a bit. One trip I made, the FRA inspection car revealed a sunkink that imposed a 5MPH slow-order for all trains near Tunnel 29 at that 12-degree curve. I will replicate the same. Jason, My main goal is to create a large layout feel, but only use 14 modules. It has to be portable!
I'm afraid, not for at least another year. I may have to move, and buying a house at this point may not be a good idea. I do plan on starting that Tunnel 27 photo diarama soon, to test that foam scenery technique. In the meantime, I plan on weathering freight cars (I just stocked up on Dullcote, pastels, and other chalks), amassing a fleet of Rio Grande power; (weathering, custom-painting locos) Geeps, and a few more tunnel motors for the new layout. I also have a few caboose projects planned, and a bunch of Alan Curtis cars to build and paint/letter. I also want a nice set of Superliners, Ph 3 or earlier. Anybody want to trade or sell?
I just acquired a nice set of Ph. III Superliners (thanks, Keith!!), and a 12" Ridgid miter saw. When I have space to build a layout, I will have the right tools for a change! The board of land management (wife) says no to building the diorama, but I think I need to renegotiate. I think the chief financial officer (wife) sees too many Wig-Paks showing up, so funds are allocated elsewhere...
The fleet is beefed up considerably since my last update, but tonight I re-drew the plan, reflecting the correct track arrangement at South Draw. I also re-drew track plans for the entire railroad, since some areas had glaring erros in placement of track. Some areas of the Moffat Route, to the few that have seen the 'Secret Places', have track alignment that is recognizable and unique to that area, say the curve east of Tunnel 29, and the Bull Gulch area. Anywho, here's the new plan: [ 15. February 2005, 21:47: Message edited by: HemiAdda2d ]
Hemi, It sure looks like you are going to have a good replica of the Moffat Route. I still cant accept the fact there are no industries or yards to switch lol. Surely you need a siding to add motive power to go up the hill?
Helpers are added in Tabernash for EB trains, on the west side of the Continental Divide (under which Moffat Tunnel bores), and in Denver for westbounds that require them. There are historically no helper stations in the Tunnel District... If worse comes to worse, I can stick a couple units in either Crags, Miramonte or Quartz sidings...
There is really something to a long train out for a run. Ultimately I'd love to be able to stertch out like that. I'd like to see your staging plan. Now I thoughouly appreciate your love of those great looking TM units.
I love your plan Hemi, how many scale miles is that? I can see the merit of a main line only layout. Switching isn't for everyone.
The prototype area I'm modeling is 12.95 miles. I am devoting roughly 112 feet for modeled mainline to that. Basically that equals about 3.3 scale miles.
Guys, I am such a goofball... I redrew the trackplan the other day, for the 3rd time, and got the South Draw area correct in track alignment. Guess what? Everything else is reversed!!! Tunnel 1 goes south to north, and the looking at the real thing, the tracks should go from Tunnel 1 on the left, to Plainview siding on the right. Looking at the plan, Plainview is at the left, and well, you get the picture. I need to redraw again, and just leave South Draw backwards, at the expense of the rest of the railroad being semi-correct. I could alternatively, build a slight grade, where the tracks will cross over themselves,a nd make South Draw correct as well, but have to cross around to the other side of the layout when operating a train thru South Draw. No duckunders, just a flyover. I would need to somehow make a whole section of scenery removable, in case of derailment or other malady. Any hints on how to do this differently? [ 15. February 2005, 21:50: Message edited by: HemiAdda2d ]
If the hidden flyover means making the curve around south draw go the right way as representative of the real route, I'd build it. Cuesta pass has a problem like that for a potential layout builder, the way the track winds around, it makes for a difficult benchwork situation. Knowing me, I'd be unhappy with anything but a accurate representation of it despite the tricky execution. If I were to invest 10 years and big $$ into a layout, which is how long I'd probably spend building my dream, I would have a long time to invent the best way to solve the problem and modify the benchwork down the road to suit. This reminds me of SD90 on the Atlas forum. He's got a really cool dual tunnel / nolix around a mountain that is totally accurate to his prototype. it's really spectacular. Only problem is that his prototypical yards which his main line lead to are reversed in the scheme: the prototypical yard on the down side is on the uphill side on the layout. Other than that, he's got it made, and it's awesome. Too bad he doesn't have a website for his layout.
Thanks for the advice, Jeff. I have followed Mike's work since he started that empire..... It is fantastic! I'll rethink the rest of the layout, since I may have a couple other things reversed...
Jeremy, Are you going to build in some elevation to this plan? i.e. will there be a climb up to the Moffat tunnel (is that T29?). I can see that being an important part of the scene. You'll have to have two staging/return loops, basically two decks in the staging yard. But that has its advantages, because once they go West, they gotta come back East...
Chris, If you look at this plan, you'll see why there is no grade... The layout with a grade of 2% like the prototype, would have well over a foot of vertical rise, and that would almost need a second deck. This layout needs to be portable, and keeping everything on one level keeps it simple. Staging is built with a return loop, and east and west staging. Continuous running is an option this way. Thanks to Wyatt here, I have a scientific plan, that shows exactly how long the staging yard will be. The plan gives me a length of at least 10' for all tracks, but one on either side.
This topic needs an update... I have since redesigned South Draw, and no duckunder, please! I have a liftout fromt he previous layout that will get reused: This redesign will allow the correct South Draw track arrangement seen here: (top to bottom, left to right; Tunnels 11-17) And I had mocked-up the layout in blue foam, giving a vague representation of the curves, scenic features, tunnels, etc.
