I was running the 4449 around some uni-track with 6 Kato passenger cars in tow when it started to stutter and then stalled, i tried it in reverse and it ran for a couple inchs then died. I took it off the track and the fireman's side traction tire is missing, but I do not see it on the track or in the drivers/rods. I really do not want to take this bad boy apart but will if I have to. 1 Where the hell did the traction tire go/ 2 why would it throw a traction tire with only 6 cars in tow at a constint speed. Thanks, Kevin
I found the tractrion tire, it was wound up and jammed up between the 3 and 4th driver. So my next question are: 1 If I take/cut them off (this is not the first time it has lost a tire) will the engine still be able to pull a reasonable amount of cars( 10?) 2 is there a way to make the tires stay on better? Kevin
I have heard that this is common on the Kato GS4 and I have thrown a few tires on mine to. I'm always lucky to have someone at a show point it out to me.:tb-embarrassed: The recomendation that seems to be shared by many is to paint the reccess then install the tire on the wet paint and the paint will act as an adhessive to help lock the tire in place. I still need to do this to mine. I always wonder what causes this and usually its someone attempting to help the loco along as they think it has stalled and needs a shove. Do not drag the drivers along the rails as it will streach the tires and they will never be the same. Also, any kind of liquid track cleaner needs to be thoroughly removed from the rails before running as this will cause the tires to more readily roll off the wheel.
I run mine without the traction tires and it pulls the 18 car Sunset with no problems on the level. It threw a traction tire so I took both of them off.
Apply some black paint to the wheel, then replace the traction tire. Worked with mine. I've thought of removing the traction tires. I have no grades on my layout and don't intend to have any.
Thanks for the sugjestions. If I can get the tire back on the right side of the wheel I will try the paint trick otherwise it will be coming off. What I can not figure out is why it came off. The engine was only pulling 6 cars at a constint speed when it happned. There were no qucik stop and go's or pushing the rninge with my hand. Kevin
I am the "proud owner" of a Kato GS4 myself. I have been burning up the forum airwaves with my rants about this overpriced piece of garbage. Mine threw a traction tire with less than 2 laps on it pulling nothing, just breaking it in. And broke it did. My tire got tied and bound the side rod and jerked from its point back to me. This is after when I took it out of its too-tightly-packed box, the tender comes apart, losing 2 little contact stirrups which without them the loco doesn't pick up power. While trying to repair it, the front pilot spring sprung into oblivion, so I sent the whole pile of crap back to Kato, and they responded with an advance bill of $45, and geez, I thought all of this would have been covered by some sort of warranty. The only guarantee Kato has is that it makes money on this junk. I am not attacking their diesels as they have those designs pretty down, after experimenting with several worm gears over the years, at our expense. Kevin, I now have a fully repaired and operational Kato GS4, which will sit in the box until I get tired of looking at it, and will dispose of it to some brand follower on eBay. I will always from this point on, try to obtain the ConCor GS4 which I have found to be more sound, hearty and powerful. At even $50, this Kato loco is way overpriced. Don't forget, you have other "quality" features you paid dearly for on your Kato GS4, like a 3 pole motor, and only 1 set of geared drivers, and no warranty. I see a BNSF logo on your heralds, I would recommend you sell that dog and buy some BNSF Heritage Dash 9's which are beautiful I am running mine now. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
Hey guys, I ain't mad at Dela or anyone, blah blah blah, I have been a little rambunctious bashing an overpriced prima donna loco. Strangely as you even tried in vain a dig at my opinion, it is amazing that Kato Customer Service sent me a pretty entailed email regarding my remarks. I will not disclose any of the points in which they too try to pick me apart, but that is par for the course and I have been picked apart by a lot more capable people. But as they took issue with my delivery, they sure didn't take issue with my content, strange, eh! What they wanted me to acknowledge is that a few of these locos are "tempermental" as if an electric powered appliance has one. As I said before, it isn't for sale for $50, but down the line, and I have time, Kato will go off to other stuff, the GS4 will still have demand, and I will be there with a completely factory tuned up Kato GS4 with less than 2 hours run time on it. Be aware that the manufacturers read our comments about their products. I have zero regrets, as I said in my reply. I have never kissed a tush before and at 63 do not plan to start now. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
Ok, this thread was moved into moderation. I've cleaned it up a bit and moved it back to the N Scale Forum. There are anecdotes here that, while perhaps expressed a bit too dramatically, are worthwhile. I've edited out some retorts--and I apologize to my fellow moderators that I edited them out too, and don't know how to reverse it.
Well I lost a traction tire on my GS-4 with just a few hours on it. I think the reason the tire came off is me moving the loco on the track while trying to re rail it a time or two. I ordered some new tires from Kato and put them on. They have yet to come off. I am real careful when I put her on the tracks now.
I really do like my GS4, It runs great and looks good. It seem's to me that the traction tire is not tight enough and that could be part of the reason it works its self off. I took the bottom plastic piece off the locomotive (the one that has the brake rigging and pilot truck on it) and moved the traction tire back to the right side of the driver. When the kids are asleep I will try the paint trick. Thanks for the help guys. Kevin
Holy over engineering batman! I ended up taking the whole damn engine apart tonight. Somehow I had screwed up the little rod that goes from the number two driver up to the skirting (excuse my lack of steam knowlege). The engine would not run but by using google I found UP Phill's trainboard thread on taking this beast apart and I got through it. What a hassel but I got it runngin again and put back together. Thanks guys, kevin
Kevin, now you know first hand why I hate traction tires. Simply, Bull Frog Snot, comes to the rescue when my stoves throw a shoe. I threw a traction tire on my GS4. I pulled the traction tire right off the wheel when I first put it on the track. To correct the problem, I ran a bead of Bull Frog Snot over the tire and it's back up and running. No loping, no further problems and I suspect it will run a long time without a repeat performance. Amazing stuff!
I have no issue with traction tires, and happily welcome them in N scale for their benefit in upgrading pulling power. In all my years of running traction tires, I've only thrown a single one, and that was only because I had just replaced it and did not seat it properly. It's interesting to see how quick some people blame the manufacturer for thrown traction tires when really it's not the manufacturers fault at all. As noted, the biggest cause of traction tire issues is when the loco is pushed/dragged along the track, stretching the tire, often dislodging it from its groove. A simple reposition, and visual check of the loco being on track instead of the old push check will solve the problem. It is highly essential that you visually check instead of push checking as with Murphy's Law a stretched tire from the push check will not throw until you're at speed, which is when the risk of binding a rod becomes severe.
I am a long time N scaler, who has over 600 locos on the roster, all in perfect or as close to perfect condition as possible, as I periodically maintain each one. The last thing I would do is to drag any loco over track or do anything to damage any traction tire, as over the years I have changed a few and everyone without exception is a major task. What is ironic is that the replacement set of driver wheels for the Kato Mikado, although conceived and developed by another company has a virtually indestructible traction tire, and over the years, many of their steamers had traction tires - heck I have a JNR Hudson from 1988 with its oriignal tires- and they come out with this flopper. Right now, my repaired loco has exactly one lap with Kato Customer Services's new tire installed intact and that is how it will be sold in a few months. Now I have had time to cool off, I still have the same opinion, and I have nothing but the best things to say about the rest of their product line, and with a little re-engineering, could be convinced to try another, but not anytime soon. My suggestions are as follows for this locomotive, since I know Kato is monitoring every word I write now. I learned from a former boss of mine to never to make a complaint unless you had a suggestion to resolve it - it shows 1) you care (I do) and 2) you have a brain (now THAT is questionable) 1. Replace 3 pole motor with Kato's standard quality 5 pole, it will last longer if anything. 2. If you retain the single geared driver concept, put the traction tires on the rear drivers which are still "powered" per se, but not subject to the torque and stress of being the receiver and sender of power from the motor. 3. Simplify the tender and drawbar to first, enable pickup from the drivers to go to the motor, and second, use the Mike type tender's electrical pickup - which is very efficient - and install it in the tender. 4. Place mounting tabs on all of the exterior components, like tender shell, cab roof, boiler front, etc, as over the years, these pressure fits will just simply fatigue. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
