Ignorance of Model Railroad History

YoHo Jun 19, 2013

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  1. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    If there's one thing I hate, it's a bunch of old gasbags talkin shop and ignoring the new guy, so you are always welcome to join one of my gas vents. :)
     
  2. JB Stoker

    JB Stoker TrainBoard Member

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    @ SP&S #750: I had exactly the same experience over at the MR forums. Completely ridiculous! When I picked up the MRR hobby again a few months ago I joined a few forums, figuring I would find a couple where I had my needs met and felt comfortable. MR forums meets none of my needs, and pretty much all of the new guys there just get gangpiled by the "Oh so helpful and polite" jerks that hang out there. Although I am newly returning to MRRing, I am quite familiar with online forums, and something I have noticed is that overmoderated forums like MR are magnets for trolls that like to play that game where they oh so politely and within the forum guidlelines bully and generally annoy people, and then when they successfully tick somebody off they stand back and say "What? Little old me? Tee hee hee, I was just being helpful".

    Edit to add: Here is an example of the type of "help" I got over at MR forums when I asked for some layout design input:

    Posted by J.Rob on Thu, May 30 2013 8:59 PM



    What a pompous bag of jerksauce! This guy fits perfectly the new MR philosophy of "pay somebody to design and build your layout, and then pack it with as much RTR crap as possible". Pathetic.
     
  3. SP&S #750

    SP&S #750 TrainBoard Member

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    YoHo I will gladly join in.

    JB, I think I know who wrote that. what really bites it for me is that some people wanted a hand drawn plan which I did in the beginning in my 4 x 6 NBR thread, clearly marked NTS "not to scale" and the only thing I succeeded to do was to get my butt chewed out, only months later to get told my layouts even the EZ track which I set up on the floor was crap... so when those guys came back into my NBR thread I got stubborn and with good reason. What I want to know is how many trains I was expected to run on a simple 2' x 4' layout, one GP15-1 was plenty to handle on layout traffic with an interchange.

    Another thing that bugged me and the thread about the future of model railroading one that popped up recently, they blame younger people like myself who do other things outside of the model railroading hobby. they want the hobby to survive yet scapegoat young people as the cause. I believe some of the folks there are ok and have good intentions but others are usually looking for a reason to ream out inexperienced people.
     
  4. Kelpie

    Kelpie New Member

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    Jb stoker & sp&s#750 stop telling lies. Sp&s they are good to you. I read all your nonsense on MRR and it seems to me you are your own worst enemy.
     
  5. JB Stoker

    JB Stoker TrainBoard Member

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    Asking for input is now "nonsense"? I guess you are entitled to your opinion, and others are entitled to disagree with it.

    P.S. There are better ways of expressing your opinion than going around calling people liars. That is simply uncalled for.
     
  6. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    This is so true. I think if I hear another "Rule #1" or "3-foot rule" standard answer/excuse I'm gonna puke. "Just do whatever you want" is not guidance. You don't post a question on an internet forum if you're not seeking multiple viewpoints and opinions on things.

    This is why I think having MR, RMC, MRH, and other similar publications around is important. I've seen tons of highly innovative techniques and technologies and ideas on these forums over the years, but that kind of stuff often doesn't get its "day in the sun" which is a shame as the hobby could really benefit.
     
  7. Eagle2

    Eagle2 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Another slant to consider - I believe many of us are inspired and educated more than we realize by those who have come before. Whether directly, through conversation/correspondence, at second hand, through published works (how many model RR libraries, for instance, do not include something by John Armstrong) or more distantly, through contact with those who have previously been inspired by others? As the man famously said, no man is an island, and in some way we are all influenced by previous generations of modellers and railfans.
     
  8. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Calling people liars is NOT acceptable here on TrainBoard. No more of that.

    If there has been a disagreeable or unpleasant experience elsewhere, it is best to leave it there. Importing it to this site only spreads the problem. We do not need or want this to be happening.
     
  9. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    yes, please, I think we all have stories about exclusive behavior. I appreciate its negative effect but lets not bring up specific incidents.
     
  10. JB Stoker

    JB Stoker TrainBoard Member

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    Roger Wilco.

    P.S. Should I amend the post mentioning MR?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  11. montanan

    montanan TrainBoard Member

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    This is an interesting post. I guess I will date myself a bit in this response. I grew up with relatives working on the railroad and was into model railroading in the early 60's. I didn't have much of a layout, but it was fun. In 1964 I joined the Navy, where I was either on a destroyer (no layout needless to say, or either going to school, or put on instructor duty. Being without a layout, I was reading anything I could get my hands on about model railroading. I also visited many layouts just to keep in touch with the hobby.

    I am very familiar with all of the names mentioned, and even had the opportunity to have operated on John Allen's G&D when I was on instructor duty at Mare Island, CA. I think John was the one who had the biggest influence on me. When I first saw his layout, my jaw dropped and I was speechless, standing with my mouth hanging open. Must have caught a bucket full of flies standing there. It was awesome! Another thing that made the friendship interesting is that he was a professional photographer, and I was an avid amateur. It was very interesting how he approached the hobby, showing how photography can find all of the mistakes on a layout. Back then, there was no digital photography. We sure are lucky now.

    When I finally got out of the service, I stayed in Florida where I was stationed and was a state trooper for about 7 years. Stuck in an apartment, a layout was a problem. I did manage to build a small 3 x 6 foot N scale layout. It was great to get back into the hobby, finally, and there were hobby shops in the area in south Florida. When my daughter was born, I figured that it was time to move back home to Montana. I had a few acres of land, and I knew that a basement was mandatory.

    After getting a house build and getting settled in, I found myself pouring over all of my old model railroad magazine for inspiration. I started work in my N scale layout, incorporating my 3x6 foot layout which I did bring up from Florida. When I built it, I figured that some time down the road that it would be part of a larger layout, and it did. I had a fairly decent layout going,, with about 16 scale miles of main line using ideas from Tony Koester and others. I was really happy with the layout, which had many of the ideas taken from John Armstrong, Tony Koester, John Allen and others. I was always into my old magazines looking at track plans, industries and any other information I could get to have an interesting layout. Many of these early articles were great help.

    Then came my problem. The availability of quality running locomotives, and locomotives painted for the railroads I wanted. This was in the late 70's. Locomotives back then were what I would call crude in comparison to what is available today. Available road names were few, with almost none available for the railroads I wanted. Them came the big decision to abandon N scale and move to HO scale. I was able to sell off my N scale at a model railroad swap meet and started planning for my present layout.

    Again I went back to what I had learned from these early modelers and managed to come up with my present layout which was started in 1983. It was a long time in planning, but now that I am finally getting the final town and yard underway, I can really appreciate the information gathered years earlier.
     
  12. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    For now, leaving it all as-is. May be edited later, if the Staff decides doing so will be best for everyone.
     
  13. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    Oh, tempt me not. Get thee behind me.
    I swore I'd never lay any H0 trackage again......but geez, you start showing the TruScale stuff.......I may have to reject my vows.
    Dave
     
  14. SP&S #750

    SP&S #750 TrainBoard Member

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    all but three people are nice to me, my nonsense had starting point. I can trace it back to the specific incident, but at the request of our fellow trainboard members I will leave it there were it will be buried.

    in one of the posts above this I saw a "run whatever you want" thing about that, to be honest the more I think about it I'd be inclined to agree. it works for people who are starting.... maybe but, eventually folks work their way to a primary proto or free lance road.
     
  15. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Quite often people do evolve interests, as the months and years go past. The important factor is always remembering why you are in the hobby- Having fun.
     
  16. SP&S #750

    SP&S #750 TrainBoard Member

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    yeah, I think I'm a railway jumper though.... I can't seem t decide if I want to stick with SP&S or switch to BNSF because it's what I see everyday.... may have to go back to the BN.
     
  17. montanan

    montanan TrainBoard Member

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    I think this was a great post. From information read from articles of these early modelers, I was able to come up with a great layout. I wanted to model a prototype. I grew up with family working on the Milwaukee Road and the Northern Pacific, but knowing that trying to model even a small subdivision of wither of these road with my available space was impossible, I went back to early articles and ended up freelancing, connecting to both roads so their power could show up on my railroad. Unfortunately I can't remember who brought up that a railroad needs a reason to exist, but this is exactly what I did. I chose to model "what could have happened" right in the area I live in, and it worked out great. From these early articles, I have industries on my layout that are dependent on each other, generating traffic between industries on my layout, besides points beyond, using staging tracks. The layout was years in planning, but it works. Tony Koester's railroad with his family of custom painted locomotives spurred me to custom paint my own fleet of locomotives for my freelanced railroad. Also from the earlier modelers I set standards for my locomotives, limiting them to locomotives that "would have" been used on an operation such as mine based on actual railroads. These were great lessons.
     
  18. Jeff Powell

    Jeff Powell TrainBoard Member

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    Humm rule #1 comes to mind. Honestly, I respect everyone's opinion, some of you have spent thousands plus dollars are your layout and it shows. I don't have access to that kind of money nor do I think I ever will. I have not been active in MRR of my own for very long, in fact a little over a year. I ran trains with my granddad when I was younger. Over the last year I have met several people in the hobby and they range from novice to obsessive. The hobby in general has a long history, but there is no way I will ever know a tenth of what many of you guys know. The bottom line for me is FUN. I don't care if my layout is not prototypical. Some say people like me ruin it and I get feedback in some clubs and other forums for that. But, hey, I don't care, I enjoy what I did and I enjoy watching others on their journey and those who are done with it. I would hate to see what forums would turn into if moderators are not present. Too many people looking for spelling and grammar mistakes to simple enjoy what is trying to be said or asked. Is that a whistle I hear? Oh yea...laters
     
  19. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Perhaps the solution is a Freelance or Proto-Freelance road?

    What is it you want to accomplish with your MR and the hobby? Are you looking to recreate a prototype? Do you really want to do that? Or do you just like the SP&S and so you immediately gravitate to creating an SP&S road?

    What about the SP&S do you like?

    This is the exact situation this thread is on about. This is a question of Philosophy, not mechanics. You need to identify what you want from your Model Railroad before you can build your model railroad.
    Often, with new modelers, what you want is nebulous and uncertain. Or very broad. That is of course fine.
    This is where the hobby press, those "famous people" can lend a hand where a Forum is less tailored.
    There are any number of possibilities.

    And to go on point, That is a question to which "Rule #1" is a useless answer. Of course It's you're railroad. That's not the point. You're trying to identify what will make it fun and you perhaps are simply not aware, because you're not experienced, of all the possibilities.

    Personally, I don't think "modelling what you know or see every day" is really important, because it's always a moving target.


    But those are questions and answers for a different thread.
     
  20. SP&S #750

    SP&S #750 TrainBoard Member

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    One thing I enjoy is the history, I also like it because it's not a super popular road which means I have to do a good portion of the loco and passenger car roster myself.
     
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