Hoboken Accident

wingnut1974 Sep 29, 2016

  1. wingnut1974

    wingnut1974 TrainBoard Member

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    any news on accident at Hoboken, nj today?
     
  2. fitz

    fitz Staff Member

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    There has been a lot of coverage on cable TV, but it's sad to listen to the talking heads who have no clue about railroad operations. This terrible accident will produce volumes of politician frenzy insisting on instant PTC. My guess is that the engineer was incapacitated in some way, maybe a heart attack? Yeah, let's hear it for one man crews, eh? Sorry, I have become an old curmudgeon.
     
  3. Eagle2

    Eagle2 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    In fairness, CNN did have one guest explaining how/why CTC would not help at stations or within yard limits. That said, the reported similarities to an incident at the same location a few years back point to something systemic.
     
  4. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    Somewhat reminiscent of how the PRR's Federal arrived in Washington in '53.
     
  5. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    Hardcoaler likes this.
  6. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    I don't want to speculate either. There is too much that has not been said. I know what it is like to operated a push/pull
    commuter train and how tricky it can be to negotiate into a terminal area and pull the train up snug in the arrival bay. I have ideas of what may have happened but I will not put them out at this time. The frenzy has already started about PTC and as others have said, none of them have a clue as to what that involves, and that it is not foolproof.

    Charlie
     
  7. CarlH

    CarlH TrainBoard Member

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    I also heard the reports of similarities between this accident and the 2011 accident, but then I noticed the reference to PATH:

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/05/path_train_crash_injures_up_to.html

    PATH is a small subway line (13 stations) that runs between Penn Station Newark NJ, Hoboken NJ, downtown NYC, and lower midtown NYC. PATH has a 3 track stub end subway station underground at Hoboken NJ, but its tracks do not connect to NJ Transit tracks in any way. Different signaling systems and equipment are used by PATH and NJ Transit rail operations, and the two train systems (PATH and NJ Transit) are not run by the same organizations. I don't know if the PTC mandate will apply to subway systems like PATH.

    I am sure the number of injuries was increased by the fact that many people are standing in the train by the time it is pulling into Hoboken station: Hoboken station has low rise platforms for NJ Transit trains, so people can only leave the cars via the steps at each end of the train, and you can save a fair amount of time if you stand up near either end of the car instead of just staying seated. And many people are in a rush to try to catch the next PATH train; during rush hour PATH trains leave Hoboken for NYC about every 4-6 minutes.
     
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  8. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Not a lot of "in depth" type coverage where I live.
     
  9. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    I read this morning they have interviewed the engineer, who claims he was approaching at 10MPH, but does not remember arrival or accident....almost sounds like some kind of medical issue?
     
  10. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I heard the 10mph claim. If an event recorder survived.... I also heard one black box was destroyed in the incident.
     
  11. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    What I heard was the rear car was twenty years old and the recorder didn't work. They were still trying to dig the front car out.
     
  12. CarlH

    CarlH TrainBoard Member

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    Anyone hear if any evidence has been found that the Engineer dropped sand? I would think such evidence would be highly visible if he had.
     
  13. Randy Stahl

    Randy Stahl TrainBoard Supporter

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    Talk about highly visible, I would have dropped more than sand !
     
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  14. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    In my pants..... :(
     
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  15. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon TrainBoard Member

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    wait for the truth to come out. BTW, the black box only works when the engine is energized. A cab car is considered an engine. That's why the black box from the geep didn't record anything.
    Also, there's no reason to drop sand coming into Hoboken. That includes rainy days, snowy days, etc.
     
  16. Randy Stahl

    Randy Stahl TrainBoard Supporter

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    Event recorders work all the time regardless if the engine is lead or trail.

    I don't know the whole story but if the recorder wasn't working after the wreck it's likely that it wasn't working at all.
     
  17. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/officia...d-estimate-of-hoboken-train-at-time-of-crash/
    FEDERAL investigators estimate 2-3X max allowed speed at time of crash.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/ntsb-recovers-black-box-video-hoboken-train-crash/story?id=42564534
    Second recorder recovered...and interestingly, especially when compare to statements in the first link, "NTSB has not addressed the speed of the train as the analysis is underway, but officials said in the wake of the crash that train was coming into the terminal faster than normal."

    Plus, they have the engineer's cell phone.

    http://www.lohud.com/story/news/transit/2016/10/04/hoboken-crash-train-speeding/91549734/
    Engineer doesn't remember..next thing he knew he was waking up on cab floor.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/ntsb_hoboken_train_crash_sunday.html
    Duly rested, cell off and stored, 10MPH, blowing horn, ring bell, applying brakes..and woke up on cab floor.

    No speculation on my part. Just the facts, ma'am, as reported by the never biased and always fully knowledgeable news media.
     
  18. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Video as well. That will help.
     
  19. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon TrainBoard Member

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    Randy, I'm a disabled engineer from NJT. I know what I'm talking about. I was trained & qualified on all the equipment.
     
  20. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/229.135

    (a) Duty to equip and record. Except as provided in paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section, a train operated faster than 30 miles per hour shall have an in-service event recorder, of the type described in paragraph (b) of this section, in the lead locomotive.


    A little confusing, as it isn't really clear if the trail unit, non-manned and non-lead loco, needs one. Does need annual inspection, does need to be upgraded from magnetic tape and meet crash and fire standards (and having worked with FDR's back in the day, pulling a bare unit out of a loco certainly does not seem to meet fire or immersion standards).
     

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