John, I would have been down there this year if it weren't for the college hunt with my daughter. I didn't even know the last time I was there that you guys would be building a couple of layouts at the station. It must have begun after I was there in April of last year. How big is your layout at home? It must be wide enough to run those articulateds! Maybe I'll ride Amtrak back to Cumberland. That was one of my favorite rides. I did that 2 1/2 years ago when Pete and Sandra took me to Cass W. Va. for the Railfan Weekend. What a trip that was. 8 hours on Amtrak both ways, 9 and 8 hours on the Cass trains then railfanning Sand Patch and best of all, meeting Harry Clark. His layout was beyond my wildest imagination. There were at leat 46 brass steamers at his roundhouse. ALL ANTIQUES! An unbelieveable replica of Cass and surrounding areas! My most favorite thing was, out of all the buildings on his layout only one had a light inside. The Church.
Johnny, Fun isn't it? I haven't got to go to Cass yet! But one day I will! Anyway the new layouts started to be built last year in august I believe. Anyway it was summer time and all so I know its somewere about that time! My home layout has 22 and 24 inch raduis curves! I have enough track to run 6 to 10 trains at once. Articulated or normal steam even diesels with the use of my modelers liecence! I model a wide range of time frame... 1940 to 1958 That lets me prototipically run any B&O and Western Maryland steam and early diesels. Some buildings on my layout are modeled for a specific year or decade. And some are modeled as they were built like in a sence that they didn't have much change in uniformity and so on... Its kinda hard to explain being I wanted to run a wide range of steam. I'm currently working on a second level thats part of the main layout on my home layout. It has its regular double main line and all but I'm putting a high elevation single main line with enough rail bed to exspand for a double but, will only be a single main line... Exactly like the Western Maryland is in Meyersdale, wide enough right of way for a double main line, but only a single on done. And that specific level will be the mountainous region.... Alot of bridges and tressels. Also, thinking of that it reminds me. All the curves on that level will be 22 inch radius and nothing less! I'm doing something different on this level being it will only be a single main line. But I have the M-2 Western Maryland Challenger so... I need the wide curves anyway. I even though about going up the rise of the mountains and putting a small tiny 12 inch radius track for my Mantua "Goat" 0-4-0 Camelback for a loging/minning spur. Just for kicks. But that will be really up off the main table. Probably 2 feet from the original double main line! So its elevation on the mountain will be high above B&O main line. Nothing more then a simple oval on the mountain edge and a small wooden bridge or 2. Nothing like the high speed class ones R.R's below.... My home layout is 8 feet wide by 16 feet long on one leg of the "L" shape it makes and the other leg is 8 feet wide and angles down to 5 feet and is 12 feet long. With different levels of track twined into the mountains and all... The newest addition that I'm adding on is were the 8 feet angles dow to 5 feet at the end of that leg of the "L" shape. I'm putting in a loco service facility and all, nothing the size of Watashes that he posted pictures of but big enough to handle my articulateds and some small steamers.... My roundhouse is only going to have half the amount Watashes does! like 12 to 15 stalls! And a HUGH 20 inch turntable.... Home made from a Atlas 9 inch one! I got alot of work to do to make that happen I know but will be worth it!
Johnny, Early diesels? Ummm lemme think, SD-7/9's, E-8's, F-3/7's, 44 tonner switchers, SW-1's, S-12 Baldwins, RF-16's "Sharks" ummm Too many to actually say! I have over 100 diesels. From early to present in time. And just about anything imaginable in steam! HA! The layout at the station that is in the process of being built is 5 and 1/2 feet wide, by 16 feet long with a tail, for a yard (3 tracks) it measures 12 feet long and one foot wide. Its small compared to my home layout! But my home layout is in yet another "planning" stage... I got some of it tore up to add on the addition!
I am not trying to sound smart, but I do have to get a little technical. Some of the Erie-Lackawanna SD45's were really SDP45's. This because EL wanted a larger fuel tank and EMD could only designate this with a P behind the SD. Believe it or not this units were purchased by the Norfolk and Western for the joint B&O, C&O and N&W Subsidiary called DERECO. DERECO was formed to help the merger go through and E-L and a couple of other smaller eastern class ones were included. Anyway, I digressed a bit. The SDP45s ran on the EL even after the proposed C&O, B&O and N&W merger failed. When Conrail was formed the units were painted blue and had N&W sublettering under cab numbers below the side cab windows. In the early 80's the lease expired on these units and they ended up going back to the N&W before the merger with the Southern. After that it gets a little fuzzy as some of these units ended back up on Conrail, in helper service on Horeshoe Curve. I believe some of them stayed there until the mid 90's
Did I hear someone say SDP45??? They are one of my favorite SD45 variants! I have only 2 pictures of SDP45's, and actually they are in the ex-CR stage of their lives (VMV): Harold
Here's the other unit.... the funny thing is that I caught both units in Hamlet yard on the same day! (One at each end of the yard) Here's the other unit: Harold
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Johnny Trains: How many variations of SD45's are there? <hr></blockquote> I know of the following: SD45's, SDP45's, SD45X's, SD45-2's, SD45T-2's Have I missed any? Harold
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Johnny Trains: Can you explain the differences? Internally and externally?<hr></blockquote> I'll try.... The SD45 was the 3600hp "original" EMD version with the slanted radiators..... The SDP45's were longer units, marketed for their room to carry passenger steam units (hence the "P"); the units I posted pictures for used the longer underframe to have extra long fuel tanks only.... I believe the SD45X's were EMD's test beds for the new 3800 h.p. engines.... they resembled SD45's, except they had 4 radiator fans, not 3 (as on the SD45). The SD45-2's were EMD's offering in the "Dash 2" line.... they were 3600 h.p. locos with the new and improved "Dash 2" features (such as electricals). I think only SCL/CRR/SBD + ATSF had them) The SD45T-2's were Dash 2 "Tunnel Motors"... you could guess who had them: Southern Pacific (and maybe others???) I hope that helps... Harold
One note: the SD45-2's did NOT have the slanted radiator sections that the SD45's had; they had the fans spaced over a larger area that was flat on the sides instead. Harold
Somewhere I read that SD'S are "NEW AND UPDATED GP'S". Is this an accurate statement or are we looking at two different species here? Are GP's considered 1st generation diesels? What is the "cut off date" for 1st generation units? What are we calling locomotives now? (Besides state-of-the-art.....) Are GEEPS being replaced by CHIPS?
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Johnny Trains: Somewhere I read that SD'S are "NEW AND UPDATED GP'S". Is this an accurate statement or are we looking at two different species here? Are GP's considered 1st generation diesels? What is the "cut off date" for 1st generation units? What are we calling locomotives now? (Besides state-of-the-art.....) Are GEEPS being replaced by CHIPS? <hr></blockquote> Actually term "Geep" came from the initials GP, which EMD marketed the 4 axle locomotives as "General Purpose". The Special Duty line, or SD series indicated six axle locomotives. There were many "platforms" or horsepower outputs that were offered as either 4 or 6 alxe units, such as GP or SD 7/9/18/35/38/39/40. Obviously, some were only offered as 4 axle, such as the GP20, GP30 or SD45. The term "1st generation units" applies to units built until the early 60's, if I remember correctly. This is not to be confused with EMD's "Dash 2" series, which premiered in the early 1970's to denote upgrades to their line. Thus the "Dash 2" upgrade of the GP38 or SD40 are the GP38-2 and SD40-2. However, newer EMD models, such as the GP49/50/59/60 were introduced after the Dash 2 series arrived, however they did not carry any "-2" designation, presumably because they had no pre-1972 predecessor. Are you sufficently confused yet? So what are we calling units now? Actually, 2 axle EMD locos are still called Geeps! Also, the GE models used to be called "U Boats", as they were introduced as U30B's, U33C's, etc. The nice thing about this was that "U" meant "Universal series", 30 = 3000 hp, B = 4 axle truck. [Note the EMD model numbers except 18 and 20, do not reference their horsepower ratings] A great question! A better resource (than me) is the "Diesel Spotters Guide"... an excellent reference book with pictures! Harold
I've been meaning to update my Kalmback books. LOL. My Diesel Spotter Guide was published back in the early 80's. I have two which are quite outdated. Am I correct in saying that calling Geeps, Geeps, is an actual tribute to the Jeep? Wasn't the Jeep a "general purpose" vehicle? I'm amazed at the engines mentioned. GP 58's, 59's 60's. These are not commonly mentioned engines. How many people opt to modify similar engines into these more rare ones? I really have to go out and update my reference books. I think in my museum one, Steamtown might still be in Bellows Falls, Vermont!
Oh, by the way I forgot to mention two things. Last year I spent the 4th of July at a family reunion in Clayton. I bet you know where that is. Not too far from you. The other thing is, I'm far from being an expert on diesels....but one model that drives me wild is the U23B. I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Saw some of them down in Meyersdale, Pa last year. They were leased.......a red and blue scheme Forgot the owners markings....... I love those snub-nose cabs! Makes the rest of the engine seem much longer! A very cool engine!
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Johnny Trains: I've been meaning to update my Kalmback books. LOL. My Diesel Spotter Guide was published back in the early 80's. I have two which are quite outdated. Am I correct in saying that calling Geeps, Geeps, is an actual tribute to the Jeep? Wasn't the Jeep a "general purpose" vehicle? I'm amazed at the engines mentioned. GP 58's, 59's 60's. These are not commonly mentioned engines. How many people opt to modify similar engines into these more rare ones? I really have to go out and update my reference books. I think in my museum one, Steamtown might still be in Bellows Falls, Vermont! <hr></blockquote> The Contemporary Diesel Spotters Guide is now produced by Withers Publishing: http://www.witherspub.com/dsg.htm They produced a Year 2000 version, but I do not think anything since then. Of course, it is still more recent than the last one I bought... I don't know about it being a tribute to Jeep, but yes, I believe the vehicle was also listed as General Purpose, like the locos (Geep). There are some interesting models in the GP line that came from the factory and were low production items, such as GP49's, GP40X's, GP59's, etc. As far as modifying similar locos into rarer ones, please clarify, are you speaking of prototypes or models? There are many "unofficial" or non-EMD GP models, as a result of rebuilds. Examples include GP8, GP10, and GP16. These have external differences from their unrebuilt counterparts. However, sometimes RR's will rebuild locos and designate them as other existing models. A common example nowadays is the SD40-2 loco on the rebuild / lease market that is in a body of an SD40, SD45, SD40T-2, SDP45, SD45-2 carbody. Harold
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Johnny Trains: Oh, by the way I forgot to mention two things. Last year I spent the 4th of July at a family reunion in Clayton. I bet you know where that is. Not too far from you. The other thing is, I'm far from being an expert on diesels....but one model that drives me wild is the U23B. I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Saw some of them down in Meyersdale, Pa last year. They were leased.......a red and blue scheme Forgot the owners markings....... I love those snub-nose cabs! Makes the rest of the engine seem much longer! A very cool engine! <hr></blockquote> Yep, you were definately in my neck of the woods... Clayton is almost a suburb of Raleigh now It has a train line, that is listed as the N.C.R.R. but leased to NS. It sees some action with NS freights as well as Amtrak. U23's appear very similar to U30's. Santa Fe rebuilt a lot of their units. Here's a photo of a rebuild that GE did to try and capture some of that market: Harold
Ah! I wasn't thinking of rebuilds! It was there right in front of me but was going crazy wondering what those numbers were! Yep. It was hotter than I thought it would be on July 4th weekend in Clayton. The grass was so wet when the sun went down. It was amazing. My hat had to wrung out because I left it on the picnic table!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for all the info!
