Climax restoration

Stephane Savard Sep 1, 2024

  1. JimmyZ

    JimmyZ TrainBoard Member

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    Do you have a place to spray it? If so, you can use a "self-etching primer" instead of the air eraser. I found the spray cans to be a little too much for something this small. However, you can decant the primer and airbrush it on. I've painted many brass models this way and all have held up very well.
     
  2. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    What brand of etching primer do you use?
     
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  3. JimmyZ

    JimmyZ TrainBoard Member

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    I now use Eastwood. I shied away from it because it's pretty expensive but it works much better than other brands that I've tried.
     
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  4. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    Some good news and bad news. Canada Post strike ended, and surprisingly, I received the new Air Eraser yesterday! I was able to test it real quick and it works on a random piece of brass. Couldn't get baking soda to work, but fine with the included abrasive. Possibly the box or arm and hammer got some humidity in it.

    Bad news is that our main drain collapsed. We're now reduced to doing our business in a Luggable Loo :ROFLMAO:. Thankfully we can still use showers and water very sparingly, if water runs too long it starts coming out the floor drain of the laundry room. It's gonna affect some if the stuff I can do, but still should start getting stuff done. Repairs are scheduled for January 10th at least.

    I'm gonna build a DIY sandblasting cabinet first, at least that doesn't need water.
     
  5. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    Sorry to hear about the setback. In college I rented a basement room in a house at one point. I jumped out of bed one morning into 4 inches of backed-up sewer water. I moved out....guess you don't have that option....;)

    Sumner
     
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  6. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    Ewe, yeah thankfully I've never that problem. I had an alarm on the lowest drain, so as soon as it started overflowing we were alerted and could stop the water (shower). Thankfully only a small puddle formed on the concrete floor and the water was relatively clean. The real downer is living on reduced water and that bucket loo for a month
     
  7. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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  8. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    Alright! I'm back!

    Had lots to do over the holidays, but I did get the parts for a blasting cabinet and assembled it yesterday...

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    Got everything from my local Canadian Tire store - the plastic box looks to be big enough, and happened to be the one that was the most transparent. Too bad the lid isn't transparent, but oh well. They had two models of toilet flanges - they looked identical except that the ones I bought were about 40 cents extra and can swivel (the inner tube turns around, a bit like the gloves on an astronaut suit. I bought these regular kitchen gloves (latex), but I also have some green nitrile gloves as well. Trying with this first because the green ones are loose/thicker and won't give me as good a grip on stuff. Finally, the hose is from the Air Erase, but I bought a rubber gasket that fits in the hole I made in the box. The hose slips inside and is snug.

    I didn't seal the lid, here's hoping not too much dust comes out. I'll try it out today on some scrap pieces of tarnished brass for practice.
     
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  9. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    Blast those bits! :D

    IMG_20241230_144255982.JPG

    I started with the base frame, first preparing it by putting in some metric screws into each of the screw holes and the truck mounts - to protect the threads from the abrasive. The front truck mount needs to be isolated from the frame, so I didn't do anything special to it, but the rear one needs to be protected to conduct electricity into the frame. I put in a washer with the screw to protect the metal. Also not shown is that I polished the United/Japan build plate under the frame, and then protected it with masking tape. Don't want that to be blasted/sanded. The frame is still dusty in the picture.

    I can't take out the wheels without desoldering the truck frame, so I used thin cardstock to protect the wheels while I did the blasting. On the left, the side frame is done, compared to the shiny one on the right. I'll do the same cardstock treatment when it comes to painting.

    The blasting box I made is okay - not great. I ended up trying to put some window foam tape under the lid to seal it a bit more, but abrasive dust still gets out. I solved that by sticking the box at the entrance of my airbrushing booth and running the fan to the outside. That seems to control the dust, but still lots of shopvac'ing to do afterwards, that abrasive sand gets everywhere! I also made my box a little small - could do with a larger one. But then the gloves I have are not as long as I'd like (is it me or have kitchen gloves got short over time??) All that matters is that it works and I can control the dust, so it's a win!

    IMG_20241230_160402978.JPG

    Here is the frame and the body all done, and fully cleaned. I washed everything under a hot water and used the compressor and a small hair dryer I keep in the shop to get everything dry and clean. I wasn't sure what to do with the bell and the whistle and such. In the end I blasted it all. I think I'll paint it all black and like I did with the Shay, then paint the bell and whistle using the brass coloured paint. That's my next step, spray it all with the Vallejo matte black rattle can with the fine mist nozzle. It worked great on the Shay and with the brass prepared as it is, I think it will look awesome here with great adhesion.

    One bit I have yet to blast is the cylinders/rod assembly (the steam powered can openers!)

    My instinct is to give it the same treatment, blast it all, including the rods, then assemble most of the locomotive, mount them, mask off the locomotive and spray the cyclinders/rods with very light coats while the motor is running. Otherwise, I really really don't know how I'm going to paint the assembly without painting the rods. Here's a picture to remind you all how that looked....

    IMG_20241012_151135893.JPG

    I just can't see how I can mask the steel colored bits and blast/paint the brass. Unfortunately, taking it apart is not an option, each joint is a rivet of sorts, not a screw. I have seen photos of climaxes or even standard steam locos where people have painted the rods black, so I figure after blasting, the paint will stick real good and would look nice in black. What do you all think?
     
  10. Mike VE2TRV

    Mike VE2TRV TrainBoard Member

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    Lookin' good!(y):)

    Seems to stick in one's head like an annoying song heard on the radio...:confused::ROFLMAO:

    Keep up the good work!:cool:
     
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  11. drbnc

    drbnc TrainBoard Member

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    Instead of paint, maybe neolube or a chemical blackener?
     
  12. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    I'll need to look up neolube, no idea what that is. For the blackening thing, I need to dip the metal right? But I can't take apart the running gear to do so. Can it be brushed on?

    Unless you know how to remove, and more importantly reapply the rivets that hold the running gear together? Hmm, I need to figure that out I think, it would solve the issue.
     
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  13. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    Neolube looked really interesting, but I can't get it in Canada without either paying outrageous shipping or jumping through more hoops than I care for - I don't shop using only a phone number or email :D The product itself is super expensive too, especially if I have to pay US$

    I'll try my patience at masking, I have a lot of tamiya masking tape and some Vallejo masking liquid. If I can get the masking tight/small enough it might not obscure too much for painting. I did post another question in the Inspection Pit to see if see if anyone has dealt with the rivets before, there might be a trick to it.
     
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  14. drbnc

    drbnc TrainBoard Member

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    Chemical blackening can be brushed on. Is generally used in jewelry making, though gun bluing may work as well. Doesn’t need to be sprayed, though it may take a few applications depending on how dark you want it. Search for chemical blackening on Amazon, lots of options.
     
  15. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    I'll take a look into it, see what I can get around here, thank you for the advice!

    I didn't work on the Climax today, but I did on the 31st...

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    The frame and the shell are done in terms of base coat. The truck side frames are also done, but they currently look mummified with all the masking, so didn't take a photo.

    Next I will add number decals to the shell, paint the window frames red, and the bells and whistles in brass. Though I might look up a product called Rub n' Buff gold. I've been reading the MRH magazine for years, but never subscribed to the Running Extra portion. I took their end of year sale and now I've been reading all the back issues, starting with 2024. I came across the Rub n' Buff article in there (feb '24 issue I think) and it looked interesting.

    It will be painted very similar to my Shay, keeping it simple! My two current two truck Shay is number 51, and my unbuilt three truck Shay will be #53 (based on the Fossmill Shays). Fossmill never had a Climax, but I'm going to freelance it to #54. Works out nice since the Fossmill shays never had any actual company names on them. Been reading a lot about proto-freelance and I'm liking the concept.
     
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  16. drbnc

    drbnc TrainBoard Member

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    One thing I forgot to mention on the blackening solution - differential take-up. The rods look to be nickel silver (maybe), and you have brass and solder in there as well. I remember back (long ago) that solder didn't take up the solution, and nickel silver wasn't liking it either. Brass, copper and silver were okay (not silver solder). Maybe the newer solutions work better, but it's NOT paint, and is hard to remove any mistakes since it's a chemical reaction a few microns deep.

    You can paint over it, but once its dipped, you'll never get it back to it's original finish.
     
  17. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    In the end, I sandblasted the whole side rod assembly and gave it a coat of black paint. I'll have some pictures maybe tomorrow.

    I had some issues with my painting. The Vallejo black spray paint is great. I got the frame, body and side frames painted. That primer/paint spray is fairly resistant to scratches, but not perfect, especially on sharp edges.

    To further protect the paint, and for further weathering later, I also sprayed on Vallejo mat clear coat (also available in a spray can). This is what gave me problems.

    After 48 hours, I installed the side rod assembly and used masking tape on the frame to paint the side rods without affecting the frame, motor and gearbox while the motor runs and keeps the side rods moving.

    After painting, I removed the masking tape, and it also removed great big splotches of the clear coat. Urgh.

    Okay, so I used an alcohol bath and stripped the frame of paint (even if comes from a rattle can, it's acrylic), and repainted without the clear coat.

    Now I'm debating weather I should strip the side rod and body as well, both of which got the same clear coat. It's not too difficult to do, but I figure if the clear coat didn't adhere well to the paint, it's only going to be a problem later when I paint the window frames and weather the body.

    Also, while the spray can of Vallejo black paint has a nice fine spray nozzle, it's still a bit heavier than an airbrush. That's fine for the base frame and the body, but it was a bit heavier on the side rods. I may want to redo it using the airbrush.

    But if so, not sure what paint to use, Ive never had good luck spraying Vallejo model air through an airbrush and having it be durable on metal. Maybe I should try tamiya paints?

    I'll have to decide tomorrow. I'll likely try to see if making tape lifts the clear coat on the body, and if so, go ahead with stripping and repainting.
     
  18. Glenn Butcher

    Glenn Butcher TrainBoard Member

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    Take this for what it's worth, but I've always considered mechanical parts to be treated with a "finish" that is integral to their structure, that is, the result of some sort of chemical reaction with the material, rather than a coating. I'd be looking at things like gunbarrel blueing, etc.

    For what it's worth, about 2 cents (US)...
     
  19. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    I would think so too, but I've seen enough Youtube videos of really well painted steam locomotives where they paint the siderods while the motor is running. I also have a locomotive painting and weathering book from Kalmbach publishing that shows how to do this. That's why I decided to paint it (and will now repaint it :ROFLMAO:) I would have liked to go the chemical blacken-it route, but I can't seem to find that here, and I'd have the worst of time trying to mask to paint the rest of the assembly.

    Speaking of which, I never posted it, but this is what it looks like once sandblasted...

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    Can you imagine trying to mask this and paint everything that is not a moving part??! :D I did try though, and gave up fairly quickly - that's why it's been blasted.

    Anyway, I've been testing clear coats...

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    The black can is now my best primer/black coat paint, I really like how it covers, and it's easy to work with for a amateur... results below...

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    Yesterday I stripped the frame using alcohol and repainted it fairly quickly. The above picture is the result - no clear coat at all. It looks a bit pebbly, but in person it's actually smooth (photos who everything!). A purist might not be happy with it, but it's great for me. plus, it's rather durable.

    The Vallejo clear coat (the acrylic matt varnish can above) can be seen in the results below...

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    It's not quite as matte as I'd like, and a bit thick unfortunately, but the biggest problem can be seen in the next picture....

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    This morning, I took the little piece of Tamiya masking tape you see on the metal block, and stuck it to the underside of the model. I left it there for 15-20 minites and then took it off. Sheesh, the clear coat just peeled right up.:mad: The clear coat was applied 72 hours ago, so it's not fresh!

    I don't know why it did this, especially since I never really had problems with it on the Shay - though for the Shay, I only applied the clear coat at the very end, after weathering.

    Okay, so what about the two other cans of spray clear coats? Both are from rustoleum. the Painter's Touch I had the can already, but I drove to Canadian Tire this morning to pick up the Chalked Ultra Matte...

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    First up is the Chalked Ultra Matte. This one is claimed by Joe Fugate of Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine as being very close to Dullcoat, but which I never used. This thing sprays out of the can like a fireman's hose. It's super easy to lay it on REAL thick. It is more matte than the Vallejo, but it does look a bit thicker - though that levels the black spray. next...

    IMG_20250105_104344333.JPG

    The Painter's Touch matt clear is possibly slightly more matte than the chalked. But I think that may be that it's so much easier to control the spray. It comes out of the can in a lighter spray. It's difficult to judge from the pictures, but if I compare them in person, I'd say they are equal, but the lighter spray of the painter's touch give it the advantage - it looks closer to just the bare black paint.

    I now have the test piece set in front of a heater to give them time to cure faster, and this afternoon I will try masking tape on both, see if the clear coat lifts.

    For now, I'm going to strip the body and siderod assemblies of paint and start over - I just don't like the weak clear coat - it wouldn't do to have problems later on.
     
  20. Stephane Savard

    Stephane Savard TrainBoard Member

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    currently repainting the body, but thought I'd update - early afternoon I did the masking tape test on the clear coated test piece - both chalked and painter's touch survived it without a mark. yay!
     
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