This thread will be a building log for a Grandt Line kit I just picked up with shipping for $19.80 (lists for $40). I'm writing this to hopefully encourage (and maybe help) anyone whom has ever considered building one of these. The kit is an On3 C&S SUF gondola. It is the same car which Micro Trains offers RTR in HOn3. I've previously built the HOn3 version, as well as a mix of other HOn3 and On3 Grandt Line kits. I find their kits to be a pleasure to build, easy to assemble, and the detail level is greater than that of most (or perhaps all) brass models. These cars were built before WW1 and were more modern than any of the D&RGW gondolas. The proper C&S terminology for them is "Coal Car". Some of the kin: C&S stocks, reefers, and boxcars went on to serve elsewhere such as the RGS and White Pass. Once I start construction, I will try to keep a clock running and update this thread on my progress. This will show that they are not difficult kits and that they don't take long to build. The results put RTR cars to shame...brass or otherwise. ------------------------------------------------------------ The first step is to check to see that all the parts are present. This allows you to promptly contact Grandt Line and get replacements. Dave Grandt is a very helpful person and an active railfan.. All my parts were present, and I had the bonus that it included decals. Something the current ones don't have (GLP got their decals from FMW, FMW sold their decals to GLP's competitor, SJCC). On the left we see the sides, the wooden frame, the ends, the stakes, the corner braces, and the brass wire. On the right we see, clusted together: trucks, brake hardware, draft gear, steel underframe parts, stirups, a jig, and the decals. The following are a few pictures to show you what a Grandt Line car looks like. This picture shows an assembled Model Masterpieces kit which uses Grandt Line's SUF kit, trucks, and brake grear. Essentially, this is what the kit will look like on the underside when completed (this is a model of the same prototype that Micro Trains used for their HOn3 flat car). Here we have one of Grandt Line's D&RGW 700 series drop bottom gondolas. It is followed by my first On3 car, a Grandt Line C&S SUF stockcar. Third in line is Grandt Line's model of C&S caboose #1006. The real 1006 is sitting in Silver Plume, Co. This shows how the B-man On30 cars compare with some Grandt Line cars. I would encourage On30 people to look into Grandt Line cars. The SUF (steel underframe) cars don't like curves tighter than 27"R, but that can be fixed by taking a file to the SUF. On3 people, you ought to have some of their cars regardless as to your prototype because they are such a pleasure to build and look so nice. They also offer a kit for RGS Galloping Goose #6. Cliff Grandt, whom did the tooling for these cars, was a machinist on the Manhatten Project. Michael
I decided to start it on Friday Evening. I decided to work in Liam's room as mommy was working with him in there. The result was me sitting on the floor to build this under low light and on a surface that temporarily stole a few of my parts (darn rug gnomes!) The entire family was there. Chester was supposed to be my spotter while lifting heavy parts, and Pumpkin was supposed to be our supervisor...he didn't give many instructions. I ventured from the instructions at the start by drilling #78 holes everywhere on the car body. I then cleaned up the big pieces and chose to assemble the I-beam steel underframe first. You only need to drill out one of the two holes in each bolster...so long as you drill out the correct one. A bolster, the end of the frame, the pad that goes on the bolster, and a completed assembly sitting on the I-beam. Chester didn't do his job very well. He fell asleep!
I then went back to the directions to assemble the box. Adding the stakes Corner reinforcements Unfortunately, I could not decide whether to square the sills or the sides. (dumb) I squared the sides instead of the sills. I then dropped the floor into place...to make certain that it was square. I realized my mistake when the wooden frame didn't quite fit...it was 1" scale too short. I quickly separated the parts that were drying and re-glued them...still squaring the sides. Unfortunately, I then had to help with the dishes and the parts didn't dry quite right...too long. I then set about to assemble the steel underframe (SUF) when I got back. I didn't follow the directions so that I could photograph it seperate from the car. These cars were quite modern freight cars when completed around 1910. They consisted of wood boxes similar to the Type 1 and Type 2 coal cars, which were patterned off of some coal cars inherited from the UPD&G (they were so new that they arrived painted for C&S instead of UPD&G (IIRC)...they were built by St. Charles/AC&F). The principle difference was that they were equipped with Bettendorf hardware like the Type 2 cars...and SUFs instead of trussrods like the 1s and 2s. The only surviving C&S Coal Car is Type 1 car #4319 in Black Hawk, Co. For more info, see Harry Brunk's Up Clear Creek for the C&S stuff or Run Rudnick's UPD&G/DL&G modeling guide for the story of the first cars. It didn't fit...it was too wide. The problem was that by not squaring the sills, the sides were around 1/2-1" scale too narrow. Many platform cars (flats, gons, etc) had end sills which extended beyond the side sills, so it didn't occur to me before this point that they should be flush with the sides (square the sills, not the sides). I fixed it by filing the end of each crossmember of the underframe, and it now fits fine. It now is awaiting the brake rigging.
But it looks rather nice as is! Total time expended: 2hr 15min...30min of which was probably fixing my mistake with the body. ------------------------------------------------ Last night, I spent 45min drilling the holes in the corner braces. I then formed the grab irons. I had to make three of them slightly longer because of my assembly error on the box. I quickly decided that I disagreed with the instructions on using a #78 drill bit for the holes. The grabs were quite tight, and I've previously bent grabs in such a situation. I also chose to use model master's triangle bottle glue instead of ACC for this. I've found that this type of styrene glue is much easier to work with, and due to the dissolved styrene present in it, it will help fill the gaps around the metal grabs and hold them in place. When I was putting my tools away afterwards, again working in Liam's room for family time, I dropped my drill bit set and possibly lost a few bits (I definitely broke a couple). Total time: 3hrs...if doing a second car: 2-2:30 of time.
It is looking real good despite the set backs, and with all that help I am sure you will get it done by the contractors due date Can't tell you how many parts I've lost to rug gnomes...one plus of the fire is that when the removed the funiture from my workroom I found many of the parts (now extras since I had to manufacture the parts I had lost at the time). So how hard/accurate would it be to "backdate" this car, or does GL make models of the earlier series?
One of my greatest joys was when I moved my hobby desk up into our loft, and found my long missing knuckle to a PSC coupler. The car has the same basic body, but you wouldn't install the underframe and most of the hardware would be different. For an 1902 car, you'd then add new bolsters, needle beams, QPs, possibly new draft gear/coupler pockets, trucks...and some new (I don't know how much) brake gear. Basically, everything that comes in the $23 SUF kit would be what you'd need to replace to build a Type 1 car. Grandt Line might sell just the body for a bit less. They sell the various hardware items seperately. Maybe even a Ye Olde Huff'n Puff gondola kit would be a good starting point (guessing here) or just starting from scratch (the cheapest option and not that much more difficult. The correct trucks would come from MacLeod or San Juan. I don't think it would be very suitable for an 1898 car as I believe that all of the hardware was different (including the stakes). From re-reading Rudnick on these, the first batch were lettered UPD&G while the second half were lettered C&S. They have a family resemblence to the Type 3s, but not a single metal piece is common to them (that I can see). The 1898 cars are covered in Rudnick...the 1902 are in Harry Brunk's. Harry Brunk's Type ones are cars built 1900-1902...T2 are from 1907, and T3 are 1908-1910. I'm currently thinking about scratch building a T1 and T2 car. I will be constructing an 1897 (or 1898...two confusing classes) St. Charles boxcar within the next couple months from a YoHnP kit. (after my current passenger car projects reach the roof & body stage). The 1898 St. Charles Reefers were covered by Derrel Poole in a short series of magazine articles in the 1990s...they are covered no where else to my knowledge. With all of these items, a little fudge tastes good. If you are modeling 1898-1910, it gets much easier as you can use all the commercial kits stock (except maybe Grandt Line's tank car). Many modelers would just use the stakes from Grandt Line rather than building their own for the 1898 coal cars. The extra stack pockets could be ignored (they were there for lumber service). Also, check out Cimarron Works' webpage...Sn3 & On3...all of their C&S family of cars are appropriate for 1898...although I think their St. Charles car may be wearing a ficticious number...if the not always correct Ferrell roster is correct. The Cimarron Works Main Page The 26' cars were from 1878-80, 27' are from 1881-1883, and 30' Penninsular are from 1884 (but not at all similar to the later 30' cars). Michael
Thanks Michael, I in fact just got done reading Brunk's article on the coal cars in "Up the Clear Creek" since I got that book for Christmas it is not being held ransom by the fire mitigation company. I have always loved the Cimerron kits but have avoided buying them due to cost. With the price increase I have seen on the RTR B-man models though these are now looking even better and are more accurate. My main interest would be the T-1 cars since they would have been in service in 1899. I hope to have a collection painted for the UPD&G as well as C & S. Keep up the great work and keep us up to date!
ditto! I am very glad Harry Brunk decided to share all of his work with us. I suspect that it helped to drive him more towards excellence...and hence providing us with more info. I just wish he'd covered the cars from before 1900...but he didn't need them, since they didn't last or were rebuilt. It is very important to note that what he refers to as Type I coal cars were at least two distinctly different types when new...the 1898 cars had a distinctive trait prior to rebuilding: 3 small corner reinforcements instead of 1 large one per corner. This detail is irrelevant for modeling the modern C&S, but you might want to add it to your cars. I think it looks quite nice! I'll keep you updated on my progress...which is currently stopped due to school. This weekend I conducted my first experiment in producing running gear for the Fn3 CC waycar...but haven't touched anything since. I hope to be back to hobbying in less than a week. Michael
Thanks. I'm in my 4th yr of pain right now. Those job offers at the end of undergrad look much better now than then...
I feel your pain! I started the PhD work right after we had our last son and almost simultaneously with buying our business and all the joy that entailed. The ONE escape I had were my trains and my friends here at Trainboard!
I can understand...except for the buying your business! Trains are my main escape...but also one my primary passions. Yep. When I started...I got engaged in May, finished undergrad in June, bought a house in July, started grad school in September, got hired on to a new research project in November, had my car wrecked in December, got married in December, and spent 2.5wks in Europe...a well needed vacation! (A 30" gauge in Austria) I didn't do much model railroading that year. The following year, I largely completed the Grandt Line Caboose while I was preparing for the oral portion of my PhD qualifier. I'd started it in undergrad, and didn't finish it until this past year when I fabricated replacements for a couple missing parts. As an undergrad, I'd ordered a bunch of parts to build C&S combine #20 using the plans in Harry Brunk's book. I never got started. I'd also began an HO NKP caboose, 141, but lost my 20+ pages of drawings (which I'd collected from two days of crawling all over her). I've tried a couple times this week to work on the coal car, but been interupted each time. I hope to take car of the assembly this Sunday before the game. It would also be easier to work it into the schedule if I wasn't keeping a close eye on the time!
Some nice shots there! One thing I have found to be helpful is to set a time of day, or a specific day as "Train Time." Once agreed with the family then they can plan around it and you won't (usually) get interrupted. Life of course happens and this is never sacred, but it does help. For instance, I can't do any modeling, even with what limited stuff I have here at the office, for a couple of weeks as I am now in a cast with a broken hand!! At least I can still read about trains
Ugh! A broken hand...and the insurance company is hoarding your books! Here's something that might help: http://www.riograndesouthern.com/RGSTechPages/_bdwhite/index.htm
Yes John, you have really been hit hard. Why the heck are they keeping your books for so long? As if the fire had not been bad enough. And now that broken hand. What happened? Thanks Michael for the link. I love it too! And that Grandt kit looks fascinating. Maybe I should try one at some point. So far I'm still busy in the basement, with little progress on the sectional tracks. But I'm getting there. Oh, and is that the Zillertalbahn at Jenbach on the first picture? You must then have been on the Achensee Bahn as well, I suppose?
Yep. But due to the time of year, the Achensee Bahn was closed. We didn't actually have a chance to ride (it was too late in the day), we just made the trip out from Jenbach (we had 15day all-you-can-ride passes) to see the steam locomotives. Next trip I plan to ride both. I had a bit of time to work on the coal car. It now has a brake line with a tie leading to the brake cylinder and some hand brake parts. Here are a couple of their items for Rio Grande fans: I plan to build Goose #6. I'm hesitant about the tank car kit because its $60. I'd eventually like to at a few more 700 series DBGs and a couple 800s.
