BNSF Head-on Collision cab video

NSCALEMIKE May 24, 2007

  1. BuddyBurton

    BuddyBurton TrainBoard Supporter

    1,933
    2,216
    53
    Found it!!!

    Here is the actual link:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXUSUAYMwWQ"]YouTube - The Cornfield Meet[/ame]
     
  2. Ed Pinkley#2

    Ed Pinkley#2 TrainBoard Member

    903
    0
    23
    Wow I never want to have to make that decision. Jump or ride it out. That signal dropped on them almost on the switch points. I sure am glad people on drugs come to work so potentially kill innocent others. The engineer on the train that blew the redblock tested positive for coke. Just lovely.......
     
  3. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

    1,888
    130
    38
    looking again at the video, it does appear that the approach signal was
    yellow over yellow. What I am wondering however, is what the speed over the switch was. Was this on the BNSF or UP using BNSF equipment? It just seems odd to me that a yellow over yellow was used
    to give an "approach medium" indication for a siding. The yellow over yellow aspect is normally used for a crossover movement. For instance
    on the C & I which is mostly single track a red over flashing yellow would normally be given for a diverging approach medium indication when a train is to take a siding, and then a restricting signal governing
    the siding and I am still wondering why a meet was arranged with that
    close of a timing for those trains. Excuse my english here but IMO there
    was some pi**-poor dispatching going on and some damned sloppy train handling too, as I mentioned before.

    CT
     
  4. SteveM76

    SteveM76 TrainBoard Member

    617
    1
    17
    Not sure of directional signals. CSX uses speed signals and yellow over yellow is advance approach on Seaboard signals.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2007
  5. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon TrainBoard Member

    4,948
    1,462
    78
    Hey,
    The 1st signal was an "approach slow".The 2nd one,at the switch was a "slow clear" until the other train blew thru his "stop signal". As he did,the signal at the switch dropped to a "stop signal":eek:mg: , but it was to late for our engineer to do anything. Our train with the camera had the signals & the switch.
     
  6. Shannon

    Shannon TrainBoard Member

    308
    0
    17
    Scott,

    Not sure where you got that information about the head light and ditch lights being the dead give away, but I think you should know that with all the new people coming on board and us boomers retiring it is not the norm for the instructor to drill in your head about turning down your lights for an on coming train.

    With all of the things going on around you in the cab, some of the time that is not one of the first things you think about. I have seen many a train leave from the Calwa California yard with either no headlight or the headlight is on dim. I have also seen on coming trains NEVER dim there lights. A dead give away?? I don' think so.
     
  7. BuddyBurton

    BuddyBurton TrainBoard Supporter

    1,933
    2,216
    53
    NS trains always dim their lights for oncoming traffic(for safety).
     
  8. SecretWeapon

    SecretWeapon TrainBoard Member

    4,948
    1,462
    78
    Its not for "safety" the way your using it,ITS A RULE in NORAC. #22, IIRC deals with headlight rules. You also have engineers who don't care about rules or you. They do what they want. We have 1 guy who rides around with his ditch lights flashing at all times & blinding you. A guy that retired(Thank God) would ride around with his hind end ditch lights,headlight on bright,& red markers on. You couldn't see the markers because you were hiding your eyes,& he followed 1 out of 3 rules. He thought it was "funny". Funny wasn't my choice of word/words since I was the one following him on the next track.:angry:
     
  9. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

    1,888
    130
    38
    Another one for the headlight display discussion. This is from GCOR(my
    copy is current thru 12/22/06)rule 5.9.1 "Dimming Headlight".
    Scenario....
    Savanna, IL , 2MT CTC,EB trains either track while waiting for WB trains
    coming off the C & I. The headlight may be dimmed,by rule.Some engineers on EB trains will automatically turn headlights off while holding short of the signal. The rule states that the
    headlight may be switched off only on radio request of approaching trains. Since EB trains on either track are stopped on a MAIN TRACK,automatically turning the headlight off is in violation of the rule.
    There is NO exception in System Special Instructions or in the Division Timetable. This was verified at N.A.R.S. by both the Loco.Engineers training Dept and by the Rules Dept.
    I can understand a guy wanting to turn the headlight off for safety reasons, but it can be done ONLY on request of the approaching train.
    I know it sounds unreasonable, but all of us operating dept rails(current or retired)know that there are any number of officials out there who will
    do anything to catch someone in a rules violation.
    Hey, how often have any of us ever passed signals to other crews when
    we have observed officials "in the weeds"? Sometimes at Eola Yard it
    was an everyday,all day,occurence!

    CT
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2007
  10. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

    1,888
    130
    38
    That would DEFINITELY be called to someone's attention, on the radio,
    so ALL could hear if it was here on the "Aurora Racetrack". Sometimes a guy would/could forget but you can be sure that a following train
    will bring it to your attention and a trainman would be sent to the motor or the cab car to correct the violation.

    Didn't the jimoke on your RR get into trouble for doing that?

    CT
     
  11. doofus

    doofus TrainBoard Supporter

    867
    59
    21

    "Running Meets" are PERFECT MEETS. A dispatcher that can make running meets is worshiped by his or her train crew...............

    If one were to read the BNSF SSI, they would see what a yellow over yellow signal meant and has ALWAYS MEANT on the BNSF.....................

    The use of the "yellow over yellow" puts all doubts to rest as to wheather or not the train will be taking the "DIVERGING" route..........................

    The misuse of a signal would not be tolerated by the FRA. It was the proper indication.
     
  12. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

    1,888
    130
    38
    And you saw the results of what happened with that "perfect meet".

    While my railroading experience is not as vast as many others, I dont
    know of any crews in our terminals who would feel comfortable with a
    running meet, and that includes me. I know of NO dispatcher on the C & I or Aurora Sub who would try to purposely schedule one. I have also
    worked out of Galesburg, in all 4 directions , and the only running meets
    I've ever experienced,anywhere, were on multiple main tracks. Yes yellow over yellow has ALWAYS meant "approach medium" except for
    several years back,just after the BN/ATSF merger, where yellow over yellow meant "approach" on certain subs, and that was stipulated in SSI
    and the division timetable. If you read my post you will note that I said
    that "yellow over yellow" approach medium normally means a CROSSOVER movement, not taking a siding.
    My Signal Aspects and Indications page, dated Oct.29 2006 reads as follows for these signal rules.

    9.1.6 ...(flashing yellow, yellow over yellow)APPROACH MEDIUM
    Proceed prepared to pass next signal not exceeding 40 MPH and be prepared to enter diverging route at prescribed speed.

    9.1.11...(red over flashing yellow)DIVERGING APPROACH MEDIUM
    Proceed on diverging route not exceeding prescribed speed through turnout prepared to pass next signal not exceeding 35 MPH.

    9.1.12...(red over yellow) DIVERGING APPROACH
    Proceed on diverging route not exceeding prescribed speed through
    turnout,approach next signal preparing to stop. If exceeding 30MPH immediately reduce to that speed.(NOTE:Speed is 40MPH for Amtrak and Commuter trains;Metra,Metrolink and Sounders.)

    You will note that 9.1.6 only gives you a speed limit and tells you to PREPARE(emphasis mine) to enter a diverging route. The other two
    signal rules tell you that you will be using a turnout and what speeds to
    use.

    CT
     
  13. doofus

    doofus TrainBoard Supporter

    867
    59
    21
    Apples and oranges.............................
     
  14. Ed Pinkley#2

    Ed Pinkley#2 TrainBoard Member

    903
    0
    23
    Yellow over Yellow is Advance Approach on the NS. You can fly by it at track speed preparing to stop at the second signal. Mostly used on short blocks though. Red over Green is a diverging clear. You know you are going through the diverging route and the next signal is clear. Running meets are the best meets I love it when they happen but I don't want to make any meets like these guys had EVER!!!!! That was a gutsy move by the guy who jumped off the engine. When waying the options I don't know what would be worse. Head on collision or risking the equipment crushing me or broken bones on the landing. Hope i never have to make that choice.
     
  15. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

    1,888
    130
    38
    That's for sure, but what still puzzles me is that on the engine with the
    event recorder I can hear the brakes going into emergency and hear
    the brake pipe draw down completely. So that tells me the hogger knew
    something was wrong. What I DONT hear is any radio chatter at all.
    When we had the "cornfield meet" here in Aurora at the ATC between
    two METRA commuter trains, there were all sorts of radio transmissions
    between the two trains. Am I not hearing something or are the radio
    transmissions that muffled or distorted.
    Not having access to radio traffic just makes all of this discussion an
    exercise in futility. Those radio transmissions MUST be recorded somewhere and I, for one, would like to hear them.

    One of the training aids used in conductor training at N.A.R.S. was
    an audio tape of a train crew and dispatcher being issued a track warrant on some dark territory out west on the BN(prior merger).
    The dispatcher issued the track warrant correctly for the proper limits
    she was authorizing the train. There was an opposing movement which
    would eventually result in a subsequent track warrant to cover the
    meet at an intermediate siding. The crew being issued the track warrant
    repeated the track warrant but for different limits. The dispatcher OK'd
    the repeat. The result was a head on between two trains at a closing
    speed(IIRC)of 37MPH. Both crews were killed. There was one survivor,
    a hobo riding "the blind". There was a video of the aftermath, and it was
    a MESS. The video included an official trying to interview the hobo but
    the 'bo was incoherent and couldn't give a lucid answer.

    While I dont remember what was determined as the cause of the accident or even that we were told it, I have my own idea of what happened. The crew copying the track warrant normally "owned" their
    stretch of the railroad for their whole trip. What I think happened is that
    they pre-copied the track warrant for their usual limits and that is what
    they repeated to the dispatcher. She had correctly given them authority short of what they repeated to her. However as I mentioned
    she OK'd the warrant on the repeat.

    That is why I would like to hear the radio transmissions between both
    trains and the dispatcher and between the trains, if any. That hogger opposing the event recorder train must have known he was in the foul
    and was going to blow the signal. By rule there are radio transmissions necessary for that situation. Probably every hogger has had a board drop in his face more than once(I have). and you know durn well YOU MUST get on that radio and alert any and all trains in the area as well as the dispatcher IMMEDIATELY if your train gets by that board!

    These two crews ARE lucky. I hope they never have another close call
    like that again.

    CT
     
  16. Ed Pinkley#2

    Ed Pinkley#2 TrainBoard Member

    903
    0
    23
    As far as I know the even recorders are not equipped with sound. The only sound you will get from the engine is for the bell and whistle or so we are told. Naturally the radio tapes will have all conversations on the radio recorded but not the event recorder. On the NS the only event recorders we have seen are in black and white also. It might be a railroad specific thing I am not sure of that one.
     
  17. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

    1,888
    130
    38
    Right! I shouldn't have used "event recorder". All the power has those.
    What I meant was the in-cab video monitor, the device photographing
    this incident. I am assuming it was the in-cab recorder doing the filming,
    if not, there was one very brave and foolhardy cameraman doing the taping. As I mentioned, you can hear the air being dumped and listen to
    the brake pipe exhausting until it is drawn fully down. There are NO radio or live voice conversations on this film but obviously there is/was
    an audio capability since, as I mentioned, you can hear the air changes
    and also the whistle. Too many unanswered questions.

    CT
     
  18. doofus

    doofus TrainBoard Supporter

    867
    59
    21
    There is a microphone mounted outside the cab of the locomotive. This system is to be used for grade crossing incidents, not for operations observations. It is not Federally mandated. You are supposed to hear the horn and bell from outside the cab, not what is being said or heard inside the cab. The system is for litigation purposes. The hissing you hear is outside the cab as the engineer manipulates the brakes.
     
  19. BnOEngrRick

    BnOEngrRick TrainBoard Member

    653
    80
    22
    The new event recorders on CSX units DO record the radio. In this case, it wouldn't have been available to listen, being recorded on a different "channel" of the recorder. Listening in on cab conversations is not what some people would really want to hear.
     
  20. Ed Pinkley#2

    Ed Pinkley#2 TrainBoard Member

    903
    0
    23
    These tapes or conversations are not meant for the public to get ahold of. They are strictly meant for company testimonies in cases when trains meet people or cars and so fourth to show the bell was on and the whistle was blown. It now shows this information on the screens of the new 26 and 2700 series engines that the NS is getting. I am very surprised that this video made it out to tell you the truth. I bet the railroad would love to know who leaked it out to the public.
     

Share This Page