LT, OK, let's put it this way--Bachmann is taking a gamble? I'm pretty sure they would know how many of their latest steamers they've sold. Let's say 10,000, just as an example. So Bachmann's product development people go to the decoder companies and ask, "How would you like an order for 10,000 decoders?" And then, of course, they ask, "And how much will you charge for 10,000 decoders?" I know a bit about the manufacture and pricing of electronics--I was in the industry in marketing for 20 years. At quantity 10,000, you start talking some steep discounts. There's an old saw that chip No. 1 is 95 percent of the cost. I'm sure someone will bite, and bite hard, especially with the promise of more "big" runs in the future. I'm not advocating DCC. I just think in the long run, it could be cheaper. Bigger production could also drive down the costs of decoders. As I mentioned before, the computer industry did this for years. It was really too expensive to have three manufacturing lines for 5 Mbyte, 10 Mbyte and 20 Mbyte drives. Much cheaper to have one line and cripple some features. Now the camera industry is doing it: Canon's "prosumer" digital SLR supposedly has the same features as their more expensive high end pro model--one must overwrite the firmware with the so-called "Russian patch," which voids the warranty--but then one just re-installs the factory settings before getting warranty work.
Pete, I read you loud and clear my friend. I don't disagree, I just get cracked up at the thought of Bachmann trying to 'wag the dog' like this. I will give them credit for doing something that put their name all over the forums this week. Expectations appear to be running high, so only time will tell whether that was a good thing or a bad thing. Success depends upon execution, timely delivery and quality control. Now, these were not known as Bachmann strengths in the past. Hopefully, Bachmann's drive to "change the hobby" started at home this time with some changes inside Bachmann I have two Bachmann steam locos currently on my roster. One of those two is one of the best steam loco values on the planet, if you got 'a good one' like I did. The other is being totally re-engineered on my workbench to get it to work right. I have to admit, I'm worried which category the majority of the Decapods delivered will fall into. I'm hoping for the best, but did not order any. If I can use them, I need 3 units to start out - maybe more if they turn out to be 'good ones'. But - If I buy 3, will I get 3 'good ones', or one 'stiff', one so-so, and one really nice one? That is my pusher's overall experience with their current production - a 33% return rate. Others have set it as high as 50% for certain runs of certain models. Maybe all of us consumers should write to Bachmann, and let them know we want them to succeed, but we need better QC? I don't want them to fail. I do want consistant quality in design, execution, assembly, appearance and operation. (so I typically spend my discretionary hobby dollar on a competitor's product with those perceived values) Bachmann needs to understand that features only create an initial buzz; it is the lack of consistant quality is what is keeping the brand from advancing to the next level. (Presuming they want to go there....) Not knocking anyone nor their choices - just saying I need better QC before I will take Bachmann seriously. One old man's opinion, FWIW
I guess I haven't owned enough Bachmanns over the years. The F7s gave me good service for quite a while, before the gears started cracking. Now the shells are over LL GP-20s. The Connies, Mountains and 2-6-6-2 are smooth runners, and easy DCC installs. Never did buy a 4-8-4 or others, mostly because of their reputation as poor performers. So maybe I'm too "new" to the Bachmann experience?
Bachmann seems to be cashing in on the steam ,big time , or they wouldn't be making so many different models. No matter what you say about them they do run better then the old standard blotchmann variety of steamers. I think these new steamers will do quite well.
geeky: In the past 5 years , Bachmann Spectrum has only released 3 steam loco's; the 2-8-0, 4-8-2 and the 2-6-6-2. I wouldn't call that prolific ... Stay cool and run steam....
Pete, I think you nailed it on the head with the hammer. I have no idea what a production run of one steam engine is, but if Bachmann combined all their steam engines just in N scale, (you can bet the number is pretty high.) is it unreasonable to think that the DCC chip will be a .10 cent chip for them to have made? so what if it's a 1.00 chip to get made, does that change the equation that much? I think Bachmann is being rather clever.
geeky: In the past 5 years , Bachmann Spectrum has only released 3 steam loco's; the 2-8-0, 4-8-2 and the 2-6-6-2. I wouldn't call that prolific ... Stay cool and run steam.... </font>[/QUOTE]I guess three new designs in N scale isn't as fast as Atlas diesels. Compare it to Kato who still have just the one engine. ( I know they do lots of japanese prototypes) Or some of the other companies who have only one or two engines worth owning. I'm ignoring older designs on the assumption that they are predominantly crap. Bachmann is still cranking them out. I guess I was also refering to steam regardless of scale. If you include all the cool HO, ON30, and G scale. Bachmann is really tearing into the steam building market. In my mind it seems like Bachmann is the steam engine company these days. I will be curious to see how Life Like reacts to the glove being thrown down by Bachmann. I think Life Like is a serious contender too. I have one of their HO steamers and it is miles above anything Bachmann makes.
Thats why like my Old Man, you buy 6 rebuild 3 into great phenominal peices then shove the other 3 freewheeling (sans motor) midtrain!!!! See it all works out! :teeth:
I would prefer to drop in my own decoder. A plug in approach by all providers would be greatly appreciated. For steam engines having the plug in located in the tender is perfect. My two cents.
FWIW: "Author: the Bach-man (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) Date: 12-13-06 00:00 Scale: General Dear Mark, Not true. It will be released when ready! Still workig on an affordable small motor. Have fun! the Bach-man" I would'nt hold my breath though.
And what have they used in the 2-8-0...4-8-2..., what has LL used all these years? Sounds like a bit of hogwash to me.
A 2-10-0 is a much smaller locomotive than the 2-8-0 and 4-8-2. I would rather wait and have Bachmann leave the locomotive "to scale" And they don't want to put the motor in the tender, why I don't know.
Cab is probably pretty close, but the boiler diameter is much smaller and the motor needs to fit within there. Most of the 2-8-0's motor is in the cab, but it still extends out into the visible part of the boiler. The motor would fit in the tender though, but Bachmann doesn't want anything to do with that.
While they're fussing about trying to find a motor, (check out the excellent running Micro Ace Japanese 2-8-0, 2-6-0, etc. all smaller than U.S. locos and probably made at the same factory in china as Bachmann), I hope they also work out how to mount a working coupler on the pilot like most other manufacturers have done.
The Micro Ace 2-6-0 that Atlas imported is not anything close to what I would call "excellent running" I want my 2-10-0 to at least run as slow as the B-mann 2-8-0.
Just a bit of clarification, I don't have one of the old time 2-6-0's that Atlas sells or know anyone that has one so I can't comment on it, it's small size wouldn't seem to make it comparable to even a smallish 2-10-0 like the russian 2-10-0. I was refering to Micro Ace's JNR C50 2-6-0 and 9600 2-8-0 which perform very well in my experience. My first 2-8-0 made an excellent switcher until Bachmann came out with theirs.
