The Bachmann Spectrum 2-10-0 Decapod will come equipped with a factory installed decoder when it's released later this year. What are your thoughts on this development? I for one who use DCC, would prefer only an eight pin plug installed in the loco/tender. I would rather install the decoder of my choice in any loco. For DC users, this would increase the price of the loco with no apparent benefits. The most reasonable option is to install the eight pin plug in the loco or tender. The wiring for this eight pin plug would be cost effective and not drive up the cost of the loco. This would benefit all concerned as the price of the loco would not rise dramatically due to the decoder installation. I will probably order several of these loco's. BTW, I have the Spectrum HO version of the 2-10-0 Decapod and it's comes with an eight pin plug with no decoder Stay cool and run steam with DCC and DC.....
Well, I don't need their decoder, so I would prefer they provide a standard plug and leave the decoder choice to the customer. Standard plug-n-play installation would be a step forward for N Scale steam, IMO. I have been eagerly awaiting this release, but if they are not available without the decoder, I may have to pass on these. I'll have to wait and see what "on-board decoder" means, I guess. If it is not easily swapped out or removed, I think it will hurt sales. I like the Atlas approach where you can buy their diesel locos "with" or "without". Makes sense to me. Just giving us a standard plug would make sense too, but then, I'm not the one putting the investment capital at risk. I won't order any. I'll wait and see. We can speculate I guess, but has anyone asked the Bach-man for information yet? [ April 28, 2005, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: LongTrain ]
LT: IMO, I think the loco will run with DC despite having the decoder factory installed. This is probably the same technology Precison is using for the E-7 that will be released this summer. Take care my friend and feel good. Stay cool and run steam with DCC and DC...
Thanks, Bob. I sure hope you are right, because I want "Russian Decapods" in Frisco especially, and would take one in Western Maryland also. I still wish they would go plug-n-play and leave the decoder choice up to us. I don't use DCC, but if I did, I might have another decoder I prefer. I'm probably presuming too much from the scant information provided. We should ask the Bach-man to explain in more detail what the announcement means
YES they will run on analog systems as well as DCC. All Bachmann new products are being released with "DCC-on-board" technology. This according to a release sent to distributors last fall. Clearly this is a way to offer DCC w/o doubling the number of SKU's. I strongly disagree with the plan but have almost given up on hoping Bachmann will listen to the market.
I guess I'll just wait and see. Many DCC afficionados say DCC locos will run on DC. Problem is, they almost never run as smoothly. If Bachmann has some technological trick up their sleeve, then indeed this may revolutionize N scale, because from a cost standpoint it can't be all that much more expensive to put in chip set B instead of chip set A. That keeps everything simple and gives everyone what they want without a significant cost premium. However, as they say, the devil is in the details, so we'll just have to see how nice these run on a regular DC layout.
If it is like to technology used by BLI/PCM it should be okay. I have a On30 C-16 from BLI and it runs great on DC without any problems. I definately prefer to have my locos come with DCC factory installed. Its one less thing to spend my time on. Eric
Yeah, but is the decoder going to be up to snuff for what most DCCers want? The Bmann DCC system does not let you configure CVs AFAIK; I suspect that the factory decoders won't be any more sophisticated. So it all may become extra cost for DC guys and a fair number of DCC guys (the majority?) The 8 pin plug makes far more sense.
This is an aspect of the hobby that is entering a real transitional phase, causing modelers to become quite polarized. In actuality I see it as just another option for us to choose from. I have resisted buying into DCC, not yet ready to take the plunge. I can see the real atvantages but I have a bit technophobia still in me. Fortunately I do not have a large collection of locomotives that would need upgrading or replacement. In much the same way as Life Like has improved from toy to hobby quality, Bachmann is doing their part to raise the quality for the entry level hobbiest. I sympathize with the dedicated DC users who don't want to pay for something they don't use. But is the price really that much different than what we'd pay for a good steam engine anyway? I sympathize with the cutting edge DCC users who want to pick a decoder to fit their need. But if the price difference is negligable and you are already buying prefered decoders, what's the difference? Now for my technical question: Do we KNOW how the decoder is wired in? Isn't plug and play part of the DCC standardization? I can't imagine even Bachmann going against that. I feel our hobby (and scale) are at a nexxus and we can unite or fragment. Ultimately we have our choices, and if a modeler does not want a factory installed DCC decoder, we can choose to not buy this product. LET YOUR HOBBY DOLLARS BE YOUR VOICE (the manufactures listen to that)
Since I know of no model railroaders in my immediate area, I operate alone. Unlike some, I cannot operate more than one train at a time, so DCC provides no advantage to me. My current layout, on DC, requires only two wires from the power pack to the rails. I normally have two locomotives on it, but since the switches are all power routing, I need no additional blocks or wires. I don't think I'll ever embrace DCC, I like small steamers too much. Plus I have a great deal of "kitbashed" legacy equipment not amenable to decoder addition. So, a decoder in this model has reduced its desirability as far as I am concerned.
We've been having fun on the Atlas forum chewing on each other over this one. Despite the pro's or cons, the deal is done. I look forward to seeing how they will do it. I really liked LL ho scale plug equiped loco's. If bachmann provides a plug with theirs then they will have done a great service to model railroaders. If it is hardwired it may become a headache for everyone DC or DCC. We will see.
Geeky: Most likely Bachmann will put a plug n'play decoder in the 2-10-0, similar to what Con-Cor did for the GS-4's, 4-8-4's and 2-10-2's. They all use the same Digitrax decoder. Stay cool and run steam....
Chessie: Most decoders thatbare installed in N scale loco's at the factory are very basic decoders. Lenz and Digitrax used very basic decoders in Atlas diesels. Atlas has been the only company to provide a drop in decoder in their diesels. Con-Cor provided a drop-in decoder in their re-release of their PA's. Stay cool and run steam....
The decoders Atlas uses are OK-they could be a lot more basic, like those old MRC decoders with only 28 speed steps & no speed curve or rear headlight control. ( I have one in a doodlebug, which is actually a good home for it) If Bachmann puts in a socket, it needs to be jumpered so it can run without a decoder-two more things to assemble and to go wrong. It will not cost them any more to solder in a decoder instead.
I wonder if Bachmann did a cost analysis of one SKU versus two SKUs. I presume they did, and found it to their advantage to include the decoder. Bachmann's been in this business for a long time, so I'm presuming they make smart business decisions. Are you paying more if you don't want/use the decoder? Not in this cost analysis. Back in the 80s, you could buy a new computer with 5-Mbyte, 10-Mbyte and 20-Mbyte drives--all the same drives, just crippled according to how many $1000s you wanted to pay. I think it's the same today with 80-, 160- and 250-Gbytes drives, except we're talking $20 difference.
Ho-ho-ho, you got me good, Pete! Whenever someone uses the name "Bachmann" and the phrase "smart business decisions" in the same post, I am reminded of the trainset that was going to "revolutionize the hobby" 10-12 years ago - The Bachmann "Big Hauler" G-gauge Radio Controlled trainset. Man, what botched opportunity. They could not seem to give them away around here. I remember them stacked to the rafters at the local Price Club warehouse store, at $29.99 for the whole set, and they sat there for months. Now, I really like the idea of radio control for trains, for a variety of reasons outside the scope of this topic, but Wow! do you think anyone would touch R/C after the Big Hauler debacle? MRC certainly has the technology to do it right - they are in just about every facet of the Radio Control hobbies other than trains. For the sake of the hobby, and all those who are eager for those Decapods, I hope Bachmann gets it right this time, but I'm not holding my breath. They can't figure out a tender drive for their 10-wheeler, even with the excellent MDC locos and countless Continental European examples already on the market . [ May 04, 2005, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: LongTrain ]
On the fence, It's hard to install those, but a plug would be nice. Many HO locos have that DC or DCC thing already. I wonder what the HO folks have thought of it. Loco1999
