These discussions are a bit problematic as "we" on this board are kind of the exception with the highest expectations. If manufacturers only listened to this group and/or the Atlas forum members, nothing would get produced. Their sales must justify their existence and since N scale seems to be growing, someone is buying. I think the vast majority of model railroaders are happy with most aspects of the hobby including QC. There are only just under 4000 members on Trainboard for ALL scales. Just a fraction of all train enthusiasts. I meet people all the time who enjoy the hobby and don't have a clue about the internet or where their trains are made OR that there is an extra foot in length of a particular model, etc. I for one am amazed at the quality and accuracy of todays models and have little or no complaints, but I also hail from the days of Arnold GP9s and Rivarossi E units. CG
I personally feel that a large number of members on this site are jaded and quick to critisize. If one reads some of the "flame posts", the majority of these posts do not have merit and it seems as if the authors are taking to opportunity of the anonimity of the internet to make statements that they would never make face to face with another modeler. I now take most negitive comments with a grain of salt.
The last two posts by C. Giustra and John are the most accuate of this whole topic. Being that I work at the shop that John shops at, we talk about this all the time. The "problems" and "complaints" posted on this and other forums are so miniscule compared to the number of items actually sold. The average customer doesn't give a hoot about prototypical accuracy. They want a train engine or car with their favorite road on it or they buy what catches their eye. Of all the "problems" mentioned on the boards over the past couple years, our shop has not seen any of them brought to our attention. We are not a BLW, Wig-wag or NScaleSupply by any stretch of the imagination but we do sell a decent amount of N so I believe I see a reasonable cross section of the products and customers. Daylight problems - what problem? I have not seen any of the issues mentioned other than the DCC compatability issue. We have the retrofit kits at the store waiting for the customers to come in so they can be installed when their decoders arrive. If the 10-15 people that posted problems with this loco are the only issues out of the 1000's sold so far, I think a less that 1% defect rate is pretty damn good. Remember that most of those affected posted on multiple forums which makes it look like a bigger problem than it actually is. IM SD45-2 - The ones we have look great and don't exhibit the "gap" pointed out. One well broadcasted bad example of a product can make it seem like the entire batch is bad. Look how long it took even the rivet counters to find the backwards roof on the IM F7's. Walthers 0-8-0 - They were light on pulling power but every one we sold ran like a swiss watch and the last batch we got pull much better. My brand new C&O out of the box pulled 24 clunkers around the track with no problem. Adding some extra weight got that up to close to 40 cars. I had one out of 8 that had a bad wiring harness. Other than that, no problems. Climbing down off the soap box now....
Well a few years ago I was doing cartwheels when Atlas announced the shay. Then when it came out I was disappointed with the final results. Not in lack of detail but in runability. It took me going to 6 different hobby shops and testing about a dozen different shays before I found one that I was satisfied with. I used to be able to pick a loco off the shelf and not test run it at all if it was an Atlas or Kato. But recently I have not bought one loco w/o putting it on the test track. I believe that the manufacturers are going for quantity and not quality, which I think is unfortunate. I have no problem droppping a Ben Franklin or 2 for a loco that I want but it better run like a swiss watch fopr the $$$$ that we are paying for them. Just my $0.02 on it.
Quit Yer ¤¤¤¤¤'n!!! You N scale guys are so Lucky!!!!! You have manufacturers fighting to see who can bring what to the table first. It is about the $$$$$$$$$ It's because of your N scale items being injected and assembled in the same places, no matter which company markets it, your actually holding up the production of what I want, of what I need to make my hobby enjoyable!!! N scale is now comparable with HO scale. Of course those who Rule Model Railroading will not admit it, but you N scalers have so much to choose from now a days!!! Just think back 5, 10, 15, even 20 years!!!!! In 1984 I bought my very first piece of N scale rollingstock. When I checked into what was actually available in N scale, was not very much, of course not compared to today!!!! Look at what you got. I sold my N, what I had, a few years back. Since 2004 I have converted to Z scale. Now the one very company that brings Modern Z to the table is constantly halted by the greater manufacturing of the N scale. American Z Line keeps getting the back burner to Your Stuff. Now you are calling alot of it Junk? Poor Quality??? Think of what you have to work with compared to Me and my fellow Z scalers!!! You Guys have the World!!!!! If you have problems with their products return them. If enough return certain items, maybe they will correct them and not make the same errors in future products!! Some of you are probably pissed at what I have written here, and some of you understand what I am saying is the truth, N scalers have the World. Appreciate what you have!!! Appreciate what is available in N scale!!!! Hobo Tim
I'm not pissed. You are correct and I do appreciate. Are manufacturers becoming our enemies? I hope not. If so we are guilty of aiding and abetting the enemy. And that's no crime. Ben
Perspective of a new N scaler Here's some appreciation. I'm modeling the standard gauge D&RGW ca. 1965, with "snapshots" (my term for running equipment that's outside the target time frame) in the 1940s and 1970s. Prototypicality is important to me. When it came to choosing between HO and N, I found that N was actually better! I've put together a fantastic loco roster for my target time frame, including F3s, F7s, GP9s, GP30s, GP35s, SD7s, SD24s, and Alco PA/PBs. I've got two California Zephyrs, one for each direction of travel. I've obtained brass car sides for a Prospector consist, and also for welded cabooses, but haven't built them yet. I've had no trouble finding the freight cars needed to build credible mid-1960s consists. For the "snapshots," I've got 2 Athearn Challengers for the 1940s -- I'm planning to haul troop trains like the one that carried my dad from Denver to SLC in 1941 -- and 8 SD40-T2s (and a bunch of Trainworx 100 ton hoppers) for the 1970s. I have had very few problems with any of the equipment I've purchased. If there was a problem that required returning a product for repair, I've been delighted with the results every time. I don't have a LHS that stocks N scale, so I've ordered from the familiar online vendors and, once again, I have been 100% pleased. My impression overall is that N scale is a very consumer-friendly place to be and I am delighted with the results of my decision to commit to N scale. --Bryan
Maybe I am in a really positive mood but I see this issue as not just moot but unimportant. Yes, the manufacturers have produced quite a few contreversial and or unacceptable products. Yes they can be frustrating. What are the consequences of a product with faults? Fewer are sold. Higher cost Lower profits. Hmmmmm. Seems to me that the manufactures know this which by extension it would follow that their products are not deliberatlely as bad as they are. Somebody screwed up or the company is taking a calculated risk. In the end I just cannot believe that poor products are deliberale. All of that said I still won't pre-order a steam locomotive no matter who makes it. I will not adopt DCC regardless of who makes / installs it. Well, that's just me and I'm in a good mood.
In what way? Are you talking about available range of equipment or scenic possibilities?( Individual models are usually better detailed in the larger sizes)....dave
Dave, I was thinking of prototypicality of consists. But I find the better N scale models, for their size, to be very convincing visually, while basic HO models seem to need a lot more superdetailing to look convincing, at least to my eye. --Bryan
I have read some good points here in this thread. We don't all to often praise the manufacturers; feedback is mandatory good , bad & indifferent. We do have a lot of power dollars talk very loudly when applied correctly. We must allow error, but should expect good, timely, honest feedback from the manufactures; after all feedback is a two way street. Or is it called good customer support when the shoe is on their foot? Things do happen, but as with Kato own up to the problem and execute good customer relations and fix it when you state that you will. And Kato did just that they handled there business they didn't allow the customers to run a muck with their business. All valid points that have been brought up within this thread, and if applied correctly. We can get just about what we want when we want. :tb-wink::thumbs_up:
Hi Bryan, Thanks for the clarification. I tend to agree with you that N scale consists are easier to put together in a realistic manner. I guess it has to do with the combination of model size and viewing distance plus the ability to view a prototypical length train. I model in O and S scales as well as N and have found the N to give a nice overall view....dave
As the one who started this thread, I am completely blown away by the link to the Rapido passenger cars web site in their announcement about doing N Scale passenger cars. The You Tube videos and the comments about redoing IC decals because the colors weren't right is so cool. It is like a breath of fresh air. Now, I know there will be compsrissons to Precision Craft. A successful HO manufacturer that fell on it's face in the N market. I think there will be a big difference. Rapido seems to want to communicate what is happening on their end. They sure as heck don't hate us.
