GRRRR!!!! Oh well... Dave you were exactly on target with your explanation of the problems with my models and probably Otto's as well. I posed a few question to the 'Customer Service Coordinator' at Shapeways regarding the orientation of the prints... including if we can specify how to have them oriented when printing. HERE... is their response: Jun 26 14:35 Hey Joe, Thanks for your very thoughtful response. I'm glad that that solution works, and I'm happy to give a little more explanation. I understand that the details are very important for you, and I agree, with scale models these are critical to the design along with the general surface quality of the model. Each material offers a different level of fidelity when it comes to detail and surface quality. You are correct that FUD will have have the highest detail, but because of how it is printed with the support material, there will be sections with a different level of surface quality (those that touch the support material and face downwards in the tray) When it comes to requesting a particular orientation of a model in FUD (horizontal vs vertical) we are unfortunately unable to offer this option. We print as many models in a single tray as possible, and this means that we need to orient then to take up as little surface area in the X/Y Plane and orient then to be vertically. Printing these models horizontally would greatly reduce our ability to pack the tray efficiently because we couldn't fit as many models, and this cause our prices to rise and production time to increase. We would unfortunately have to pass these costs to our customers, which I think you'd agree is unacceptable. This is why we offer a range of materials, such as ones that can be polished afterwards, and encourage designers to strengthen their designs and make their details bolder, so they can service the process. In the case of shipping I will bring up with my team, but I'm glad to hear the designer has bulked up the model. I hope that helps to explain. Best, Andrew Customer Service Coordinator www.Shapeways.com Not that I want to hi-jack your thread James... Your model is superb in every way... but I hate to see that the reasons posed by Shapeways may cause otherwise willing buyers to feel the issues are with your design. It rest completely on the Shapeways production staff and their intent to squeeze every penny out of each run. They claim that doing models oriented at the customers request would increase costs and be passed on to the customer. Well... if they have to continually refund and reprint models then the costs to them should also increase. I would think they want VERY satisfied customers.
Thread drift alert! Joe, Not that it will make you feel any better, but that is the standard Shapeways reply. While Shapeways is an easy company with which to work for small jobs, there are other alternatives (which require more patience and understanding that our model railroad business doesn't bring in much revenue). Please see below a comparison between a Shapeways printed boxcar side on a Projet3000 (that they printed vertically for some reason), and one printed by ADC on a Projet3000+ (with twice the resolution) that was printed flat to minimize printing artifacts due to the substrate. The downside, Shapeways charged $20 for 2 car sides. ADC charged $100. The price is a huge deal because I plan on making a master and producing resin castings. FWI, here is the car that I am trying to produce, a series of cars used by the Milwaukee Road to ship beer from Schlitz and then Pabst. http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll290/djs_ank_ak/BeerRailcars/DSDX5202.jpg Thread drift off. Best wishes, Dave
That's quite a difference between the two. The horizontal lines on the Shapeways may not be enough to justify the price difference, but the clarity of some of the details may be. It is a significant ratio, though. Perhaps in time and with increased production, the ADC printing will level down in price.
It seems to me that no matter how good the designer's drawings are then, it's "in the lap of the Gods" whether you get a "goodun" or not!
Dave thanks for sharing your image, I found it interesting reading your thread on the other forum. But before my thread turns in to a "bash Shapeways platform" can I point out that although Dave's image is among the worst print quality from Shapeways I have ever seen but Dave has said, in his thread about this on another forum, that they did refund him and the file used to print the second box cars side at ADC was enhanced so they are not from the same file. For about 95% of the shells and parts I have had printed and sold have been great and where would we be without Shapeways laying the path we are following, and no I don't work for them. Yes we can get better results else ware but how many of us drive McLaren F1s to work? So back on thread, I should be getting the Brass etched early next week so I can show what they look like. Also I am working on a RT-624 (DT6-6-2400) version for the Pennsylvania fans. That hopefully will be available next month. -James
All good points and I agree with many/all of them. I didn't want to divert your excellent thread on your lovely design. I just wanted to show folks that there are other options out there, and to help explain some of the printing issues they might experience as there appeared to be some confusion about what to expect. As a closing note, I should say the only difference between the files sent to the vendors was a very slight scaling factor that was applied to account for printer calibration. This was only applied to the x and y components (as viewed flat). The z component (ie. the amount of relief for the rivets, door hardware, etc) was unchanged. Oh, and a grab iron got lost in the process, but that wasn't a big deal. I hope this temporary diversion doesn't take away from the information presented on this very nice project. Best wishes, Dave
Hi Dave, thanks for clarifying the info and I am looking forward to seeing the results using the high quality prints. Later on this year I will be doing some tests myself with a local 3D printer just to see what can be done although I will continue to keep all the models at Shapeways, manly because of the accessibility it give everybody. The last of the first run of Additions for the DT6-6-2000 has been reserved but I can always get more done if anybody still wants some. -James
Hi all, I had a nice parcel arrive today containing the DT6-6-2000 Additions brass etched handrail sheets. And here it is in the flesh, well brass. Those who have placed orders already, your Additions sheets will be in the post tomorrow (Thursday). -James
Well, behold, I now have James' nicely done etchings, delivered from GB to California in mere four days, AND a corrected shell from Shapeways which took only about a month longer.... The shell looks good, with only a minimum fuddiness. When I'm done cleaning it, I'll post a photo... Saga continues.... Otto K.
Got a couple questions. First, has anyone else started working on these yet ??? Would LOVE to see some pictures !!! Haven't started mine yet because I've been working 6:30 AM 'til 8:00 PM. Second, this is directed at James and I might be out of line, but did these sell well ??? I truly hope so !!! I LOVE the Damn things and I have been spreading the word around here !!!
Thanks Run8Racing for spreading the word, I have sold enough to cover the cost of my own, which is always my goal and I knew a few people that have held of until I finish the DT6-6-2400 (RT-624) version as they are Pensy fans and there where a few distinct differences. That loco will be available next month also with brass handrails and antenna, as is typical with the Penssy. -James
