Please allow me to vent a bit. Noone person did more to damage the model railroading hobby than Irv Athearn. Many people ane totally unaware that he artificially deflated the prices of his "blue box" stuff because it was easy as most of it was fully amortized, but still, he didn't allow the profit to float up with inflation. That set modelers sights on an artificially low price point. When he left the business, complaints were common about the evil new owners inflating prices to feather their own nests, but really, they were just doing what Irv should have done long before. No one has ever been able to compete with that sort of thing, and now we have an image of a hobby that is too expensive for all but the one percent. And don't tell me we are squeezing out young people. Look at what they have. Fancy cell phones, video games, expensive sneakers. Don't tell me a pair of sneakers for 150 makes a problem cause theyre running out of the store. Is a good locomotive worth the price of a pair of sneakers? Maybe we are the buggy whips of hobbies. OK, I'm done. Sorry.
as CEO of xyz...it's my job to make money! (promoting the 'hobby' becomes a part of it, but, bottom lime...make money-produce what sells....) If we want the hobby 'promoted'...it's up to US to do it... I'd do: more modeling, more sharing of techniques, photos, etc...with everyone, including newbies! especially newbies! LESS bellyaching!...it's what you/we make it...not someone else!...if you can't find your own joy and satisfaction in any hobby, that will DEFINITELY be imparted to someone who is curious about it... if you can't be an ambassador to the hobby that you, apparently, enjoy...then keep silent.. Mom always said..."you catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar" it gets to be pedantic, and somewhat annoying, to constantly hear what's wrong with this hobby, people, the world, etc... I LOVE this hobby, alone, AND with the group of folks with whom I'm blessed to call 'friends'...I'm going to enjoy my hobby until I'm no longer capable of physically indulging it...and even then. I'll love spectating it. Again...it IS what we/you/the individual hobbyist make of the hobby that goes the furthest to promote it if one must criticize (and I certainly do) then do it constructively...then, because nothing is perfect in this world, provide or inquire about a solution...i.e. "how can I fix it?"..."how can I make it run better?" I can't imagine a worse scenario, for a person just getting started, curious, or just compiling info about our hobby, than to visit this (and other sites), lately, and read some of the dismal, negative threads...about products, members, etc....lol...seems as if I accidentally visited the psychologyboard... For every member/contributor that someone says is an #$$%^%...there are 10x as many, here, that will, and have gone out of their way to help, assist, mentor anyone here...I am, continuously, AMAZED at the generousity of spirit of folks on this, AND other sites...I mean...we are truly blessed to have this freedom, this forum, AND to enjoy a hobby that is LEAPS and BOUNDS, currently, over what it was just a few years ago, and LIGHT YEARS beyond what it was when I started having an interest. My advice...and CEO's of these companies can certainly do it as well...is to do your utmost, individually, to promote the hobby..promote in your own circle of influence...donate your time, your talents...if you don't have local group, you DO have a forum here...and elsewhere.. but, IMO, it's up to you..up to us...to promote this hobby. ~Bruce
Bill, that's a really interesting point-- I certainly wasn't aware of that. I can't help but wonder how or if that also drove the "entry level" items and prices seen during the 1960s and 1970s from the likes of, say, AHM, Aurora/Postage Stamp/Mintrix and others. I guess the thought may have been that if it couldn't be priced below a blue box kit, it might not sell. Which leads me to another point... the disappearance of model train items from discount department stores. That's in no small way due to the disappearance of those discount department stores themselves-- Two Guys, Korvettes, and Woolworths were all sources of inexpensive N Scale items for me and HO Scale items for my dad. Each of us probably has our own favorite "fallen flags." And we shouldn't leave out the Toy and Hobby Shop aka KayBee aka KB Toys, which sold Bachmann items for years. Yes, I know, not the best quality, but still, widely available. One more thought about that... the comment about the "rich man's hobby" certainly resonates. Take a look at some of the prices in the Model Railroaders of the 1930s-- with few exceptions (Megow being one of them), stuff was expensive on a relative basis. The blue box/discount store era might have been the exception, not the rule and now we're just "reverting to the mean". Before reading Bill's comment I was going to add that we do need to "Take it to the enemy" meaning other diversions that compete, whether we like it or not, with the "World's Greatest Hobby." In my opinion, the big mistake made by WGH is that they did not try nearly hard enough to preach to other than the choir. Showing up at already established model train shows doesn't help. Having the WGH shows probably did a bit more, but it's hard for me to tell whether they really drew people that had not already heard of model railroading. WGH really "jumped the shark" when the individual ambassadors were "fired" in favor of clubs only. So I "retired" and haven't done a talk, train show or other promotion since. I don't think this one can be solved by any one CEO. The offshore manufacturing horse is out of the barn, down the road and hit by a truck. So is "pre-orders"-- I'm just hoping it doesn't go to "pre-pay" because that's when I give up.
Three things (they contradict each other sometimes...hey, I can contradict myself if I want because I'm the CEO today): 1. Take the Hobby and make it more experiential. The coolest thing would be to literally sit behind the "controls" of a locomotive and operate the train. With technology being so much of our lives, take the Train Simulator software and execution and mash it up with the hobby to create an immersive experience. Now you literally start doing train simulations...which is what we are doing...simulating a real world with our artificial world. 2. Make it simpler for beginners. We can bemoan the loss of craftsmanship and expertise, but if it seems hard, it will be more difficult to attract and to retain more model railroad fans. For instance, we have drop in decoders...but it sometimes takes a keen interest in electronics to figure out how to make them work well. Simplify the interface with the user and make it less arcane. 3. Make it easier to customize. With 3D printing, you can more easily customize items. Why not do what 1:1 manufacturers do...create a base model and then provide options for costs. You can take care of 80% of the market with the standard options/road names and then broaden the appeal by selling the chassis and an option to customize shells using 3D technology with finishing. I know some love this aspect of the hobby (customizing), but I don't know if that is the broad sentiment. Kato produces a number of models off the chassis used for the F3....why not embrace modern technology and have a program to customize shells and finishes? I know it is more difficult, but they now charge quite an upcharge for KOBO customized versions of their equipment...do the same but broaden the things you can customize. John
There's a guy that shows up at the Naperville RPM, he has his O scale switching layout run through his laptop, which in turn uses that controller that can be used with Trainz and Train Simulator.
Regarding the Irv Athearn/Pricing stuff above.... I agree. And that whinefest about prices is being perpetuated to the newcomers such that they feel compelled to complain and I'm not even sure they really know why they are complaining! And the overly price sensitive nature of the hobbyists is compounded by the hoarding nature, especially true in n-scale. It wasn't that long ago that it was pretty standard practice to buy just about anything that came along in n-scale simply because there wasn't much available. NOW, folks are still in that mode but with the unbelievable volume of products it keeps people "hoard poor" which makes the price issues worse. More to the original point, I think the reaction to the price issues has meant that companies DON'T put as much into promoting the hobby and the industry as much anymore, simply because it eats at the bottom line and new competition isn't playing on a level playing field. This issue isn't unique to model railroading, but these days the constant price thrashing has meant that there are no real advocates to cultivate a hobby or an industry in general. It's the same short-sightedness that tries to ignore the importance of a supply chain and customer service and only looks at the absolute bottom line. In short, we are devouring ourselves. So key to all this would be modifying consumer behavoir, and trying to find ways to promote the hobby in a way that allows for "healthy competition" and "healthy companies" while still making efforts to allow affordable ways to play in this great hobby. I would try to develop a small group of industry players, publishers, and other like-minded "stakeholders" and try to spread the costs of the effort to the beneficiaries instead of funding my competition's riding of the coattails. I'm sure this exists already in some capacity, but if you're saying it ain't working, then a different way of approaching it seems to be in the cards. The second major thing I would do is empower my employees. I know nothing about how Micro-Trains does things, but I suspect they are competitive--in part--because of this. So basically, don't hire an expensive resource to handle ALL social media and forum interaction, but rather empower most of the team to take initiative in those areas. (and of course manage it accordingly) You see someone like Joe from MTL interacting often and it seems has had a big part in the weathered/graffiti'd offerings and to me that is paramount to get those kinds of ideas and ambition.
One thing that might help is to stop giving so much attention to huge, basement-sized layouts. The American dream is dead for a good chunk of the younger generation, who can only foresee moving from apartment to apartment and don't ever expect to own their own homes where they can build the kind of dream layouts that are featured month after month in MR. That's for a long-gone era when there were such things as job security and pensions.
We all need to face facts. The MR hobby is for adults, males mostly. If we think its a kids hobby we are going somewhere that is impossible, because we are fighting changing times. Every kid goes to school and learns about computers at a staggeringly early age. Nobody takes shop class anymore, so the whole idea of working with ones hands is out the window. If I were trying to promote this hobby I would do what the tool and home improvement companies do, push the product. Promote it to men who have started a family and are at a time in their careers where they have a bit of disposable income. Look at the slick woodworking magazines. no one says Woodworking is Fun! They must recognize that the fun comes from the accomplishments. No one giggles while building a fancy table, but they sure feel good when it's done and everyone that sees it loves it.
I agree, but believe that Bluetooth (Direct-Bluetooth-Train-Control) will be the winner when all is said and done. Bob
Update us in 5-10 years when she starts to have some discretionary income (allowance, gifts, etc.) and gets to choose between new model train equipment and the latest widget from Apple.
Either way, model railroading technology is (has been) woefully behind the times for about 15 years now. That needs to change and fast.
I assume you have a few hundred million in your back pocket for R&D if you want the technology to change fast.
Yup. Great point. Many of them think nothing of tossing hundreds and thousands of dollars at the latest mobile devices, softwares, apps, goofy clothes, tattoos, etc.
(a) thanks for the smarta$$ answer that adds no value to the discussion (b) it would not take nearly that much, most of the stuff is such a commodity these days that it's likely more expensive to buck the status quo. It's not about CHANGING technology, it's about using what just about every other industry already is using. (c) this is not about what "I WANT", this is a discussion about one would do if they were CEO. And if I were CEO I would dang sure make certain that my products were taking advantage of what is commonly being done in similar industries. (see R/C, et al) (d) and guess what..."technology" doesn't just refer to electronic gadgetry...I'm talking also about materials and processes used.
Some truth to much of what has been said, and remember we are in a creative thinking mode here. Personally, more than anything else, I'd like to see the manufacturers get away from the build to preorder model. While I get their need to keep warehouses empty, this particular way of doing business puts a hurt on those of us who often have to plan discretionary purchases.
I have several hobbies I enjoy, and I hear the same doom and gloom in all of them. The video gamers complain that casual games (think the games you play on your phone) are killing the hardcore games. I've even read that the average age of gamers is going up, and less kids are interested in playing. The amateur astronomers decry the lack of youngsters getting interested in astronomy. Want to talk expensive hobbies? A good telescope with a good mount and a camera to take pictures with can easily run over $10,000. I think model railroading is fine. The kids love Thomas the Tank Engine and Chuggington and as a conductor for a major western railroad, I can tell you that I spend a lot of time in the cab waving back at all the kids who stop what they're doing to watch the big train go by.
Having shows in a large mall is a good idea. They used to do that when I was a kid. Then you hit a lot of regular people. I remember going to the mall one day and finding out there was a train show happening. I looked downstairs and was shocked to see the Model Railroader Clinchfield Layout. I stood and looked at that thing for a half hour, and when I saw a 100 car coal train creep through a scene, I was hooked. That's what made me switch from HO to N. So that stuff works.
The manufacturers will counter with the argument that the pre-order/build-to-order and sell out quickly model allows them to recycle their working capital faster and to offer a greater variety of products more frequently. Under the old system, you could choose from a Con-Cor PA-1 in any roadname you wanted or a handful of locos from Atlas in a half-dozen different major roadnames each. The other part of the problem is that no one further down the supply chain wants to hold on to any inventory. That function used to be served by distributors/wholesalers, but now they seem to act mainly as order aggregators between the manufacturers and the individual retail outlets.
David D, mall shows are rather were a great idea. The mall shows ended when the malls became nationally owned rather than locally owned, discovered that carts could be leased in the formerly open centers, think about all the carts you see at your mall. I travelled for my job from 1981-1999, malls at first were interesting to visit as they were all different, later, they became such that they all looked the same and had the same national stores, due to national ownership. The issue of who you let use that open space lead many mall owner groups to simply deny everyone rather than risk a legal battle over who they let in and who they denied. One size fits all, ban every group and there are no legal problems. Also, do not forget liability concerns from the malls over liability if one of the little ones gets injured looking at a model railroad display. Simply put, mall shows were a reflection of the times, but, now, we will never see their return. That said, I enjoyed mall shows, enjoyed the questions, and my club did obtain new members from the display. Things just change and some we can never go back to.
