I have been trying to come up with a good plan from a article i saw on MRR. traiN'ternet - Possum Valley I have come up with two i like so far. One has the two logging camps plan and the other one has three logging camps plan. I posted the rise of track by inches from plywood base and grade numbers as well. I have heard that the two-truck Shays can handle up to 6 cars and pull a 6.75 grade. I am close on the one leg to having that. I wish i could show inclines but I have never been able to figure it out. Am i getting to much on layout with the three camp?? Now if i can get the shots of plans to show here...
They are really both about the same to me. Two things jump out at me though. I would eliminate the last part of the branchline. This will allow you to have a better grade. And 2, I am guessing that the track in the front corner isn't going to fit this way, unless you use a VERY small radius.
Actually, I think you may have heard the 2truckShay pulls 6 cars up a 6.75% grade from me. Actually, it may have been 6.57% I don't remember. Anyway, please remember that these 6 log cars, 35 footers, were empty. Logs weren't meant to be pulled/pushed up hill. A Shay would probably hand 20 full cars down hill. Now to the layout plan. I don't profess to be a layout planning guy, but I think Plan 2 could do without the extra turnouts and sidings. Remember that you have to have some land for the trees to grow on. Those new sidings seem to limit tree terrain. If I'm correct and your new siding goes to a Camp 3. Then I definately would leave it out. By using the work 'camp' one assumes buildings and such. On your size of layout this is really overkill. I would make my Camp in the upper left corner and use the bottom sidings in my log cutting area. Camps were built to service some pretty large areas. They would then be moved to the next logging destination. On your layout the distances are too close to warrant more than one camp. Lastly, I can see the need for the roundtable on the right side of the layout. Not sure why you need the left one? I would leave that whole track line out. You are going to need room to make a valid attempt at gaining altitude and you will need to start at the edge of the layout. Jim
Turntable at bottom of L is for the engine house. The one at the top of L is to turn around engines at inter connector and to get the goose going the right way on return to town of Keesler. The camps have two tracks and the one on the lower level is one track, was a old camp. track goes to bare pathway. It can also be used as a car siding for empty trucks. Also is a tressle there. Also thought of turning that third one into a coal mine of some kind but think that there may not be enough room there. I am thinking that there is not much room for logging camp too, that would make the third site unusable. I am not sure about a creosote plant maybe.. There is one up in Sutton, WV but there are others around the state. I want to have more than the lumber company if i can do it. Most of the trains i saw when young was Coal, farming and lumber/logging and a few boxcars for ?? I am thinking it was lumber or maybe parts for the mines in the area. I worked at one of the lumber company's and enjoyed it, but saw all kinds of other cars so i would like to mix the cars but need something for those cars to go to. The top of the L cannot be made longer, but i can move the foot maybe to make it longer. Just drawing a blank as the tracks are gone and trying to pull from memory....:tb-frown:
First, let me say that I am excited to see a logging layout in the works. I hope you'll post some of your progress shots and so on in the logging group. Now, talking about the layout, I cannot tell from this how big this layout is, but perhaps the grid is 12" on a side? In that case, I would make this suggestion: simplify. You have enough space to get a nice logging layout in N scale, but I think you need to concentrate on just having a few areas - a logging site, a logging camp (just one), a mill, and maybe some locomotive servicing. To put any more in here and I think you'll risk over-cluttering the layout. Now, for the notes on each - Logging site: this is where the tree cutting and loading take place. Special trackage here should be minimal, as in maybe a short run-around siding but even that I would leave out on a smaller layout like this unless you are really into the scenic possibilities. This is where you will bring your empty log train in and get it loaded. Based on your locomotive choice, I am guessing that you are thinking 1920s-1950s era, in which case it will likely be some sort of spar tree with a loading set up operated by one or two steam or gas donkeys. The Camp: Even large Pacific Northwest operations normally didn't have more than one or two camps. Oregon-American, the mill I have been studying, had two for a while, one in Keasey that was more established and was really kind of a "forward base" of the mill back in Vernonia, and one other further up that was mostly full of bachelors. The buildings were nearly all narrow enough to fit on a train and put on skids so that they could be moved. The Mill: This can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. On my layout, my mill is greatly simplified for space purposes. I have a log dump into the mill pond, which mostly continues off the layout in the viewer's mind, and then I have the business end of the mill shown where the logs would be conveyed up to the saw with the rest coming off the layout. The next piece over is a shed where finished lumber is staged and loaded from adjacent platforms into boxcars (my era is ~1940s). Out near the front is my wigwam burner, which I hope to equip with a smoke generator just for shows. The Locomotive Service: We're model railroaders, so of course we would be interested in this sort of thing. On my layout, I have a simply spur near my mill where I will be modeling a scaled down version of Oregon-American's locomotive servicing terminal. Theirs was adjacent to their mill. On my layout, which is mostly modular, I have moved it to an adjacent module to keep the overall depth of my modules within T-Trak standards. Other logical places to put this would be with the mill or even in the logging camp if it is a more established sort of camp like Keasey, Oregon, in the 1940s. I share Mike C's concern about those two curves he circled. Those spurs there will be very difficult to access with such a tight corner. You may want to rethink this portion. I am looking forward to seeing how this develops! Adam
Here's a pic of my cutting operation. It is atop "logging mountain" and is serviced by 6.5+% grades and a switchback. Jim
Thats a neat logging camp. I can do one ok. The sawmill is on the lower level with the three ramps. One is the log dump, the other is boxcar load track and the last is for the sawdust/ wood pulp track. Am looking at maybe 30's to maybe 40's in time. That sawmill i am getting reminds me of the one i worked for. Where the turntable at the foot of the L is a engine shed/ repair area. I am looking at 2 more Shays and a goose to get folks to and from the interchange. The layout is 12" grids and that is 7.5' X 6'. the width is 29". I do like the first but like i said, maybe a different shop of some kind there than just lumber. On top the two camps are daytime only. They can go to Kessler where the sidings meet. I think ii will write the names and what goes where to help out. Give me a bit to write in places and will re-post, Dan
OK, I went and changed things around and think that i get it right...or was i left?? I tried to give a idea on what was where. I like the separate engine shes and repair yard and wanted it away from the lumber camp and town. If things look good i will use this one for last revision.
Hi again, I think this will answer the questions. I made a bigger interchange from what it was and i removed the second track where you were saying about the radius. I removed the other two camps and still have the company town for the ladys and kids..and the saloon for the hands..Need a drink about now! Trouble is beer is only cold in the winter..This layout is for the fall season. The dw's idea...:tb-ooh::tb-rolleyes:
Ahh.. can i say done?? :mbiggrin: I have checked both posts and based on it i think i have a plan that may work. I posted on the page itself the grades. There is one track that has a steep grade but can use that section to go back down to level. The rest is all below 4.5%. I moved the town over to the sawmill area. With the turntable i added two tracks as a place for the engines to be worked on. I can also use the ramp heading towards the turntable to repair cars.I could also use one of the interchange tracks for repairs too. There is on the track going up showed by switch and old track that can be a old camp. I couldn't get the draw to do what i wanted so i added the switch and track where i would make a path where the tracks went. Could maybe look interesting. I have room for a nice trestle and the log dump should be neat. The sawmill should be super and a shanty town for Kessler should have better interest too. Thats about all Kessler was! There was a sign saying welcome to Kessler, and another saying leaving... Was a few shacks and a combo store for mail, food drink and , i will let you figure out what happened downstairs...This site is g rated! Now a shadow of its former self. the combo store is gone along with the tracks and i would say 98% of the town area. It has returned back into a farm community once again. Anyway, let me know what you think and if i need to make changes tell me where, Dan
This is a good plan, I think. It gives you a lot of space between the tracks for some scenery, it gives you a lot of interesting scenes, such as the mill, the logging site, some uninterrupted trackage for your log train in the woods shots, and the town. I had thought some of the earlier ones were a little "busy" but you've addressed that, too. The one place that still gives me a bit of concern is the track in the inside corner of your "L", but I don't think a tight curve like that is necessarily out of place on a logging road. Looking forward to seeing this get built, Adam
Thanks, I had a fit trying to give that curve a lessor radius. I moved the sawmill track all together about 5 inches in and it still comes out about 6" radius. With the 35 foot log cars and shays it should be ok. but you just don't know. I may have to fudge it somehow when i really start up the board.I may be able to make a slant at the sawmill so i can gain more room for that curve but don't think it will help much. That is the sharpest curve on the track. I think that this will be the final version. Thanks again!! Dan:thumbs_up::tb-wink:
The only other thing I could think of would be to make that a big curve and have a track diamond crossing there... perhaps not such a great solution. Thirty-five goot log cars and Shays will probably be fine. My only concern is shoving a string of them backwards through this curve.
Yeah, i know. I haven't been able to come up with a answer to that issue yet.It can't connect to the upper section of track as it is about 2" above o grade. Its about 6+ radius but would like 7.5 or better. I already took away some of the sawmill area to get the turntable and yard in. This will take a bit of brain power to figure it out. That includes me out!! He!He!:tb-biggrin: It isn't as sharp as before but for the life of me i can't come up with anything but to redesign again. I also don't really like the 8.+ grade on the bottom of the L. It can be used to go down to the interchange but can't pull itself up that sharp a grade.I can't make the board much larger but maybe wider on the top of the L.....hummm.... Later, Dan:tb-ooh:
OK, Fixed the issues with A, lowering the grade to 2.5 from 3.1 leaves me with about 2.0" to add track, roadbed and engine. Hope that is enough. B, Moved the sawmill in to about 6" and i was able to get a 9.6 Radius!! Issues solved! The best benefit besides the curve is that i have room for a few more shacks there where the tracks were. I will get it on here tomorrow. Dan:thumbs_up::tb-biggrin:
OK, I said i fixed the layout plan and i did. The radius and grades are shown. That one back track with steep grade is lower than before and i helped by cutting down the lower foot to 2.5" from 3.1" in height. I can go up with the bottom of the foot to make sure that it will clear that track in the tunnel. I like it in that everything will fit and i will have a bit more room for the town down by the sawmill. I do wish i had a place for a engine house but if i fudge the area around the turntable i might be able to put a shack or something to cover the track and that way the workers can get out of cover when working on one of the engines or cars. Unless there are anything else i need to make this better, This should be it. Now if i win the lottery.....:tb-biggrin::thumbs_up:
O man, Thanks!! Sometimes it will work but need to figure out how to do it. Moving the sawmill in away from the edge made the curve larger..Duh! So i ain't working with a full deck! Glad it is right! Thanks all, Dan It will be a few months before i can start up the layout but i can start building the kits, scratch building and kit bashing. One of those projects is trying to take a 4-4-0 and turn the front wheel sets to go behind the engine and then turn it into a forney! Don't know if i can and another issue is can i add a decoder to that little engine?? Both should keep me ripping my hair out for sure. I think they are so cool! Thanks all again, Danwink:biggrin:
