Hey Red Rock-I think your work is great. I have a few undec 53ft that I am painting in JB Hunt. I was looking at decals on microscale web and there is no picture for the decals I need, so I am curious on how many trailers each set does. I would guess two? Thanks.
Red Rock - excellent - how do you do your ICC bumper bars? They look great. GoSteelers - you can do 3 trailers w/ each sheet from microscale. Dave
EXACTLY! I initially had this same thought with the Athearn pups. Then I was in a LHS the other day and noticed that Athearn has a "two pups and a dolly" set in HO, so hopefully they will duplicate that in N. Anybody know when those DART trailers hit the roads/rails? They are pretty regular customers on the BNSF trains these days but I model 1998 when 53-footers weren't quite as common. I would like to see anything J.B. Hunt, but especially the 48-foot trailers and 53-foot containers. (to go along with the bazillion 48-foot DI JBH containers I bought from George & Debra) Then I'm gonna start lobbying for more Hyundai 20 and 40 footers again.
Thanks all. Hey GoSteelers, like Dave said, that decal sheet has 3 sets for the Hunt trailers. Dave, I just used thin strip styrene to modify the bumpers, working from proto photos. Doug, Dart has been in business for 70 years, they partnered up with Wabash trailer manufacturing in 1985. I haven't been able to find out when they started using their current scheme however. While you're lobbying, we could use some 53' exterior post containers.
OK Red Rock, I just lobbied Athearn via e-mail to do their pups separately, and also do the Yellow Freight and Roadway pups, as well as 53-foot containers in 5-packs like they do in HO. No disrespect to DI by the way...I'm buying everything you're throwing at me! But I want more, More, MORE!!!! By the way, when are you guys gonna release the details about the Maxi-III's? Oh, and before I forget....Red Rock, you do some really great work. I've seen your trailers, containers, and other weathering jobs here and before on Atlas, and your work is top notch.
The Trailer only issue is one that we are going to take care of for you shortly. The reason for the tractors is that we have a shortage of over the road models as well as trailer models, and until there is a more commonly available 89' flat, there isn't an awful lot to put the trailers on! As to the 53' containers, we've announced them, the tooling investment is made, and we're doing them. You need a duplicate in the market why exactly? Best- George Johnsen deLuxe innovations
"...more commonly available 89' flat..." While I'll probably get yelled at for this one, I agree. AC's are great and I have a few, as are MT's, but a good RTR model is needed. No offense to anyone, but I don't count ConCor. I have painted and decaled enough 89ft flats to last a lifetime, I need some RTR TTX/Trailer train. Anyone else?
http://www.qstation.org/ice/i_c_e.html http://www.wabashnational.com/products/roadrailer/reefer_railer.htm#features Here is a link on the trailer specs George.I will help out as much as I can.I am patiently waiting these Ice Cold Express Road Railers.They sure would look great running around at train shows.I have 120 Swifts.Another 120-158 I.C.E. would top things off just fine.
George I'm sorry for being a little slow in the brain tonight, but I'm not following your train of thought here. I'm very excited about the pending corrugated 53' containers. Although I am confused by your question. I'm a big supporter of your products and look forward to many more good things from your company. Keep up the great work.
Another thing that is really needed are multipurpose well cars that take trailers or containers. Con Cor has one but it is too, too light and every one I've seen is warped.
The All Purpose well is an interesting challenge, given that it really only comes in a couple of colors, so justifying the tool is somewhat difficult. We have a very hard time making a boatload of colors that aren't real to pay for a couple that are, as it really puts the modeller behind the eight ball on their choices. I suppose we could right "Fake" or "Fantasy" on the box, but it wouldn't sell very well if we did. We're going to see how well the die cast goes on the Maxi 3. If it does what we think, then we will re-consider what to do in that line. I'm betting a die cast car would track better than a plastic one. George
George I'm sorry for being a little slow in the brain tonight, but I'm not following your train of thought here. I'm very excited about the pending corrugated 53' containers. Although I am confused by your question. I'm a big supporter of your products and look forward to many more good things from your company. Keep up the great work. </font>[/QUOTE]The point if I understand the other George's post is that the N-market is too small to adequately support multiple manufacturers producing substantially identical accessory products. Yes there are 53' corrugated and also 53' smoothside containers but most modelers won't make the distinction when purchasing.
I'm not so sure on that. There is enough distinction between the corrugated side and exterior post 53' containers - in both body style and paint schemes - for both body styles to be successful. Both styles have some exclusive schemes. The corrugated side container (deLuxe's model) has APL, Pacer, Stax (red) that have schemes that are exclusive this prototype. Maybe CSX as well... Whereas the Ex-Post has JB Hunt (I think???), BNSF, Stax (white) and EMP that are excluse schemes. They're all home run releases for the modern intermodal modeller...and we can tell (and want) the difference. Even the few schemes that overlap between styles - NACS for example - are popular enough to sell plenty of both. What do you think George? James (hhmmm...whats up with that photo??) http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/5410/pacu882147.jpg if it stays a "red x"
James, I agree there IS room for both styles. I think "Wig-Wag" George may be referring to "existing" Con-Cor boxes as competition even if that is stretching things a bit. OK, a lot. I certainly think a lot of modelers would know the difference...kinda like the difference between smoothside and outside brace boxcars, or between narrow hood and cowl diesels. I personally don't feel like Con-Cor will ever truly compete with DI but that's not to say that some Con-Cor stuff can't be made into viable models. I think DI's competition is yet to come but will be here soon. (Athearn) Then, yes, it would make more sense to be selective about what gets produced. BRING ON THE MAXI-III's! BRING ON THE JB HUNT Boxes! BRING ON RE-RUNS OF 20 & 40-foot Hyundai's!
I was not referring to the Con-Cor product. I was referring to your request of Athearn to produce the same containers in 5-packs. I was also referring to the investment required to produce a new tool. Each container costs substantially as much to make the tool as a Boxcar. Why should two companies produce the same item as an existing product? If you work with end cost (MSRP) info and project backwards the cost recovery level for any tool is high. If you can't project actual sales quantity in the 6-figure quantity level you are not getting much return on your investment. The one thing many modelers seem to not understand is that this is a business for those that produce, distribute and sell models. Each project has to generate it's own profit to make the company profitable. If they don't the mortgage doesn't get paid and the kids go without. We now have 4 companies making substantially identical BethGons. How long can N-Scale sustain that?
George, I think you have a good point there. While the market for N seems to be expanding as the product offering is, there will be a point that the bubble will pop and it may not be pretty. Just look at what happened to the total us economy in 2000-2001. We're just now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. N scale products seem to be heading toward a crecindo (sp?), i just hope it doesn't burst as badly as the rest of it did.
OK, I think I'm misunderstanding here, but just to be clear both George's, who essentially make a living by producing/selling scale models, are saying that there is not a significant enough difference between a corrugated and smoothside container to warrant an additional product release? Or did I miss an announcement by DI about a 53-foot smoothside container? (and I'm not even gonna broach the different container/trailer manufacturers out there, just a type of container.) I just go look at DI's laundry list of upcoming products and I don't see any more 53's, that's the only reason why I would approach Athearn with it. Kinda like the reason Atlas does Code 55 track similar to ME. It's an availability issue....how many years will it be before I can get that turnout I need for my layout expansion. And frankly, I think Athearn will do them whether you, me, or DI like it or not. Oh, and I still think that DI should do a 5-pack of containers, I think it'd be a hit. But I will defer to the comment below about "not understanding the industry" on that one. By that logic, why did DI release 40' smoothside and 40' corrugated containers? Man, I gotta be missing something here. You're probably right about that. While I don't have a great understanding of the industry, I do know that as a general rule people don't work solely for "the love of the job" and if there's not a reasonable expectation for financial success then these manufacturers would do something else with their lives. Having said that, I wouldn't argue that I get "tunnel vision" sometimes about certain models I want to see but I'm generally OK with reasonable facsimiles of most stuff. I certainly wouldn't want to see a manufacturer that couldn't make a living, but anytime you work in an industry like the hobby industry it's gonna be a higher risk deal...and should be a higher reward as well, although I'm sure I'll get to hear from the "yeah, right" contingency. And for them, I might suggest the grocery business....people gotta eat!!! Ultimately, I don't think modelers need to be concerned with whether or not a model is a "hit". I don't see a model and go "oooh, that one's gonna tank, I better buy one or XYZ company may go away." So, us modelers need to express what we want, as we are here, and no matter how bizarre, "not market worthy", or "not gonna happen" that our ideas may be. Now this one IS a mystery. Only way I can explain it is that two larger companies saw the MSRP's topping $20 a piece for (a) cars with 10yr+ tooling and (b) cars that modelers generally buy 24+ at a time. And that's not trying to be critical of the "other" guys, but it's just BUSINESS, right? [ 28. July 2004, 18:14: Message edited by: Doug A. ]
Hey Guys- George Wig Wag, thanks for interpreting, but I'm afraid you recieved my transmission slightly incorrectly. I apologize for not answering sooner, but I plead Chantilly Prep Fever! Our policy has always been that we don't print a paint scheme on a body style unless it is a very good match for that bosy style, unless it is a special run for someone, and they insist. That said, there are a LOT of cool paint schemes for the 53' exterior post (rib side) that we wouldn't be able to do without that body style. We like EMP, NACS, and Hunt, so we can't print those on the corrugated. Anybody that knows me knows that I would certainly NOT say that there isn't enough of a difference between 53' corrugated and 53' external post containers to matter. George Wig Wag is confused, and he knows me better than that! What I was saying is that asking several manufacturers for the same product (we have announced 53 footers corrugated this year, rib side next- asking Athearn to jump in would certainly dilute our sales to the point of it being a very bad business situation) isn't really good for the scale. No one will ever know the impact of 4 coalporter tools being active, but i can tell you we'll try to avoid duplication like crazy, as it REALLY kills sales immediately for both (all 4?) parites. There is a reason that Kato still has most or all Bethgon SKU's still in stock. Since I wrote my oringinal response with a smiley, one could infer that i was gently kidding. I suppose i could have been more obvious, but I didn't think I needed to be. Here's the bottom line: It's a great time to be an N Scaler, as many manufacturers are starting to realize what we based our entire business plan on- N Scalers are smart, and they appreciate prototypically accurate models. Even some of the esoteric prototypes can be successful in the market, and, currently, there is room for everyone, as long as the cut throat competition stays at the planning stage, and not post tooling investment. While a duplication will not kill anyone, it certainly slows down the time that it takes to get money back in the tooling budget. And EVERY hobby company large, small, or inbetween, has a budget. To reiterate: We are doing corrugated containers in 53'. We expect to have first production available before the end of the year. We are doing 53' exterior post containers in the near future. In the meantime, we have added a 40' high cube to our arsenal, an investment we REALLY would have avoided, if we didn't think the modeler would care. As of the end of the year, our line is: 20 foot corrugated 40 foot corrugated dual logo panel standard height 40 foot refrigerated container w/ Carrier reefer 40 foot corrugated all wrinkle High Cube 45 foot corrugated all wrinkle High Cube 48 foot sheet and post 53 foot courrugated all wrinkle Next year we are adding: 53 foot exterior post And a utility container to be named later...... This will mean that all of the modern containers will be covered. If you wanted to make a case for another manufacturer to get into the container biz, it would be better to pick some that aren't done, like an accurate 40 or 45 foot smoothside, a logo panel 20 footer, or a rag top. That way, they will see better sales (new body style) and the hobby will be improved (wider selection). For proof of how this does and doesn't work, check HO scale. We definately believe that the market is good, but to grow it to make all of these great tools pay for themselves, we have to add modelers. For that, we have two choices- raid other scales or add hobbyists. We prefer the latter, as new blood is great for the overall hobby, and train shows, Ntrak layouts, and Operation Lifesavers all help. You can help, too, by sharing your passion with others. Go get 'em! George Johnsen deLuxe innovations PS- apologies to Geo Canham if I offended- I know you had the best of intentions....
