DCC Decoder Advice Needed

Hi, just getting into DCC, bought the wireless NCE system and have a few locos (N Scale) that already have DCC on-board. I managed to set everything up, set up the hardware and locos I have and have about 25 other, DC, locos I want to convert to DCC. Before I jump headlong into this I want to hear some opinions on which decoders are better than others, what to look for in a decoder and a sound decoder. I'll probably buy most of these in the coming year and make it next winter's project (this winter was a micro trains coupler conversion winter). Thanks in advance!

 

Thanks so much for that thoughtful reply, it helped immensely. I'd like to do drop in decoders but won't shy away from some soldering. Dead set against any major frame modifications. Looking to convert some Atlas engines from the late 2000's, same Katos and the like...not going to try and do the stuff I had as a kid in the 60's, Minitrix, Rivarossi, etc...leaving those as is. Good to know about ESU's library, didn't know that. I'll ahve to do some more research. Thanks again.

 

I model HO, so I can't say much - but one thing to keep in mind - you don't have to settle on one decoder and stay there. They're all compatible, so maybe you want the amazing sound and versatility from ESU, but you want some locomotives that just have a plain DCC controller with no sound, and you pick up a cheap Digitrax or NCE for that.

My ABA FA Alco set runs with both A units having sound, and no sound in the B unit, just plain DCC.

I'm using the NCE Power Cab DCC starter - I think it's excellent.

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Thanks, yes, that was my thoughts too. I would like to just buy them once, make the right decision form the beginning. I think a lot of it is going to depend on how much modification there will be to the locomotive and I understand that a lot of them just can't have a sound decoder without major modifications, a problem that isn't too prevalent with HO!. I don't even want to get into my Z Scale trains....

 

Question then. On a Kato Mike, GS4, or Bachmann circa great steam, with stock decoder. Will soldering in a ESU LocPilot 4, show demonstrably better motor control, than a TCS Z2, or the stock Bachmann?


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In my opinion, ESU and Zimo have the best motor control in the industry. Digitrax and TCS are very good, though, and depending on how picky you are about "tie to tie" crawling speed, you may find them just fine - although the ESU LokPilot v.4 is either the same price or CHEAPER than a TCS Z2.

However, IF you are seriously considering sound, then here is my advice. The best sound decoder for diesel installations right now is the ESU LokSound Select Micro. The sound files are exceptionally good, and the ESU "Full Throttle" feature is useful if you have serious grades on your layout (less useful if your layout is flat, but still worth having to simulate starting a heavy train in a yard).

If you adopt ESU as your sound decoder, then you should use the ESU LokPilot V.4 for your non-sound decoder for two reasons. First, having one brand of decoder makes programming MUCH easier. The LokPilot and LokSound have exactly the same motor control software. That means that setting a speed curve and momentum becomes easier to speed match locos. You can start with equal values in each decoder, and make minor adjustments from there. Plus once you learn how to program lighting effects, or change function mapping, it's the same for everything. Learn it once, and that's it.

Second, ONLY the LokPilot V.4 is compatible with the ESU LokSound Full Throttle features (ESU is about to issue a firmware update for the LokPilot V.4 that will implement the Full Throttle Drive Hold feature). In order to use the FT Drive Hold feature in a consist, all your locomotives must have either LokSound or LokPilot v.4 decoders (note that there are different versions of the LokPilot; the V.4 version is the only one that is compatible with Full Throttle).

If you are interested in sound in the future, then I'd seriously consider using LokPilot V.4 decoders today for motor control.

John C.

 

Thanks John , great advice. I have been looking at the ESU website, it's odd they don't seem to have a selector tool like Digitrax or the others for applications in specific locos....unless I'm missing something. If I do sound, I'd do it at the same time I convert these locos, don't want to do everything twice. It's going to be quite an expenditure so I'm gong to make sure I do it right the first time.

 

My own view, which I expressed in my previous message, is that both ESU and Zimo are superior in motor control over Digitrax and TCS. Whether the superiority is something that matters to you will depend on how picky you are about extremely slow speeds. The LokPilot certainly will be a LOT better than what comes in the Bachmann, IMHO.

BUT, why use a TCS Z2 when an ESU LokPilot V.4 is just as cheap or cheaper?

At one prominent etailer, the TCS Z2 is $37; the LokPilot V.4 micro is $32. I think that if you do a search on the web, you will find this to be generally the case at other dealers, as well. In my view, given the pricing, this is a no-brainer decision. The Digitrax DZ126 series, on the other hand, is significantly cheaper than either the TCS Z2 or the LokPilot V.4. I'm not a big fan of Digitrax decoders, but I can see why someone might want to save $15 per decoder if converting a fleet. It does add up.

John C.

 

Again, I'm not sure this applies with N, but I'm soldering in my own "DCC Ready" jacks so I can change decoders after that in a few seconds. I figure if I've made a mistake in any of the hodgepodge of decoders I started with, I'll make it easier to upgrade.

I have 5 locomotives with LokSound Select in them - I'm saving my pennies for a LokProgrammer. The thought of being able to go down the street to the trainyard and make my own recordings is pretty awesome.

I've also found that it's almost intolerable to run without sound - there's just something "wrong" to see a locomotive creep by with no sound coming from it! But I'm still new to the game, so it's entirely possible that I'll grow used to the sound and even find it annoying at some point?

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That's actually a great idea regarding the jack. I know what you mean about sound...I have only a few DCC locos and only one with sound and I find myself putting that one on the track most often. It's amazing how spoiled one can get....

 

I've been using the Z2, because I just learned about the ESU today BUt, don't let me hijack the topic

 

There's no "selector" guide for the ESU decoders because they just come in one size (for N scale): the micro version. They are not loco-specific drop-ins; the only difference is whether you order a six-pin or 8-pin plug, and in either case, you'll likely cut off the plug and hard-wire the decoder anyway, since very few N scale locos have sockets for decoders (hint: buy the 8-pin, since it has all the wires you'll need already soldered to the pads). This is true whether you buy the LokPilot or LokSound.

So . . . really it's simple. For motor-only, buy the LokPilot V.4 micro with the 8-pin plug, cut off the plug and hardwire. For sound, buy the LokSound Select micro w/8-pin plug and do likewise (do NOT buy the LokSound V.4 - this is a bit confusing; V.4 micro for motor only, but Select micro for sound). Have your dealer install the sound file you want, unless you invest in a LokProgrammer (which I would strongly recommend if you are going to do several conversions; worth every pretty penny).

John C.

 

After looking at the site for a while I kind of came to that conclusion. So i guess the next logical question....do I have to install both a motor drive decoder AND a sound decoder or do I just buy a a LokSound Select (with a speaker) which has both motor control and sound? I did see the LocProgrammer...kind of frustrating that you have to get a different programmer for each type of manufacture's decoder you install.

 

I feel your frustration, but the LokProgrammer was the only one I really felt would be worth the money for me - since you can actually change the sound files and the like. I don't THINK others can do that.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

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For drop in decoders, without sound, no one has mentioned the NCE line. Is their silent running and dithering function inferior to TCS, for slow speed control?

 

Yeah, everyone has their own proprietary programmer for their sound files, IF they are programmable. Here's my list:

CT Elektronik (Austria) - don't know much about them, and no US-prototype sound projects that I know of exist for their sound decoders.

Digitrax - sound file is programmable, need the PR3 with a computer connection and the SoundLoader software (Windows only).

ESU LokSound - sound file is programmable, need the LokProgrammer connected to a computer (Windows only) with the LokProgrammer software (available from ESU's web site)

Soundtraxx - sound files are not programmable.

TCS Wow - sound files are not programmable.

Zimo - sound files are programmable; need their MXULFA programmer attached to a Windows computer; software and drivers come with programmer.

QSI makes sound decoders for HO and larger scales; I don't think anything they make will fit in an N scale loco, except perhaps in a large steam tender. Their files are programmable with the Quantum Programmer (again, Windows-only, I think).

Those are the ones I know of.

John C.