I hope this works. I'm posting my track plan for modern Bullet trains. The layout is 16'x12' and will be in the center of the room in the basement. The layout will be in our summer house so I plan on having continuous running of the trains. It is not illustrated in the plan but there are two mountains in the top and bottom left of the plan. This is a passanger train plan so I have a double line running on the main line. Also I plan to add a stream going through the left side. I probably missed some other items I'm planning on revising but I want to see if the track plan posts. I forgot to meantion it is an N scale layout Thanks
As far as I can see, your minimum radius (except on the inner oval and yards at right) is 17.5". I seem to recall hearing that Kato bullet trains require a ridiculous 25" minimum. Can anyone who owns a bullet train provide some first-hand advice?
Hi Triplex Thanks for responding. The minimum radius is 17.5" on the main lines, largest is 22". There is one radii of 16" in an inner loop in the yard (bottom right section oval) I've tested the 17.5" radii with the Kato 500 & 700 Bullet trains and there were no problems (those 2 kato train's passenger cars are longer than kato's other model Bullet trains they produce) . When I tested the 16" radii only the Kato 700 had some problems but none of the other trains did. On the bottom left side of the plan, I've moved the inner curve down closer to the other main line curve to give more room for a stream cutting across the layout.
Nice plan. If your goal is running bullet trains I can't imagine a better arrangment in the space you have. Should be a fun layout.
I agree with Doug, Looks like a great plan for running bullet trains....have fun and keep us updated on your progress
Bernard: This layout has a lot of track for its total square footage and some may suggest reducing it, but everyone's personal preferences are different, and what is important to you on your layout is the highest priority. For what they're worth, here are some ideas on minimizing the impact of lots of track in a little space. 1. You indicated your plans include mountains on the left. Consider positioning them in such a way that they form a ridge to block casual viewers on the outside of the U from easily seeing trains on the inside of the U and vice versa. But not so high that an operator who wanted to watch his train on the far side of the 4-foot shelf would be prevented from seeing clearly if he stood close to the near edge of the layout. If your scenery plans do not include mountains on the right hand side of the U, it would still be possible to create a view block with trees on low hills or buildings strategically placed to prevent casual viewers from seeing across the 4 foot shelf. Essentially, you are using the ridge, hills, or buildings to cut in half the total amount of track visible at any moment. 2. Even when central view blocks keep viewers focused on scenes on the near side of the 4 foot shelf...and especially when running trains on 2 loops (or 4 as your plan is set up to do)...you may want to make one double mainline "disappear" from a scene for a moment so you can focus the viewers' attention on the other mainline or on some specially detailed scene. Some modelers use tunnels to accomplish this, and make the tunnels easily removable for maintenance and repairs. 3. Others prefer having the track always in the open, but make their mainlines momentarily "disappear" from the scene using somewhat more subtle ways of redirecting attention from one mainline to another. To focus attention on one mainline, some modelers move the other mainline to the rear of the scene, sometimes even partially (or totally) hidden behind buildings, hills, or trees. The viewer knows the track is still in the scene, but shifts it to the background of their attention, as well. 4. If colors near the track at the back of a scene are slightly more muted, the buildings slightly less detailed, and the scenery more uniform, then the viewers' attention will be more easily drawn to the other mainline at the front where there are splashes of bolder or brighter colors, more detailing on the buildings, and more variability in size and shape of trees or structures. 5. Super-detailing a 6" or 8" scene with some interesting story or activity that is NOT near the tracks (like modeling a wedding, highway construction, factory or office interior, street scene, residential homes, etc.) can distract viewers from multiple tracks, and reduce the impression of a layout over-filled with track. 6. Some modelers try to reduce the number of times a train goes through the same scene more than once, especially if it goes to the right one moment, quickly around a loop, to return immediately traveling to the left. Consider adjusting and scenic-ing the loops so that eastbound trains are primarily visible when moving to the right and westbound trains to the left. Any time the right-is-east/left-is-west orientation is correct, move them to the front of the scene, and attract the viewers' attention to that track. When it is not, then "hide" or minimize attention drawn to that portion of the mainline. This plan is somewhat unique compared to many seen in this forum, because its primary purpose is so deliberately (and successfully:thumbs_up: ) designed to address your priority for continuous running with very little switching operations. I'm curious... Who is to be the primary audience for this layout: a moving operator focused on an individual train as the train goes through one scene at a time, or a stationary viewer (or viewers) who is looking at any of the 4 trains moving anywhere over the entire layout and NOT just one train? This plan provides a great way to entertain those who like to watch trains rather than operate them. I suspect you will have a number of people encouraging you to make some provisions for operations. Your answer to the question of primary audience will guide how you choose to address Point 6 above, and will probably influence some of the suggestions we might offer regarding the track plan.
ppuinn Thank you for your detailed reply it is very much appreciated you brought up points I didn't consider. The most important question you asked is the audience and you are correct it is for a viewing audience to see multiple trains running continuously. The layout will be in our home my wife and I own but will have to wait a couple years to move into (due to our present job situations) When friends and relatives do visit (mostly in the summer, the house is on a lake) they can observe, if they so desire, the trains running. So I decided not to do an operating layout because right now it's only me. 1-The Mountain. The gride # didn't print through on the left side but it will go from North 0/North 3 to West 0/West 3. The tracks will be hidden in the mountain. Any suggestion as to a recommended height in order to block a viewer from seeing the inside of the U? 2-Having the viewer focusing on one main line at certain points is an interesting point. I'll re-think some areas to hide one of the mainlines. 3&4-This is one point of concern for me. Buildings. The original area I was planning on having a few structures was in the back area North/5 thru 10 but I haven't planned out the room for it. I was going to make this area a main station depot. 5-Your so on the mark about story telling. I plan to have a stream with fishermen and swimmers on the left side cutting through the layout. I'll move the inner left South curve closer to the very bottom left/south curve with a possible mountain to hind the trains. In that area I now thinking of possibe scenes (horse farm, rock climbers,etc.) Again thank you for your suggestions they were detailed and well thought out. I know there is a lot of track in the plan, (getting carried away with watching multiple trains run) But you make an important point of different scenes. Whenever I see the Christmas layout in the Citicorp building in NYC, there a tons of trains running but there are also other scenes for the viewer to watch. (They have a working "Drive-In" theater with the screen made from a portable DVD player screen) At this point, the basic structure (tables) has been assembled with 2" foam on top and a grid drawn on top of the foam.
The only other thing I might address is the trackage inside the oval to the lower right. Don't know if this is industry trackage, bullet train storage, or what, but I'm not sure if the "fan" arrangment is appropriate. (maybe it is for the bullet train yards?) If it is for a station, they would probably be parallel...maybe reduce to 3-4 tracks and make them parallel to the station platforms? Just a thought.
Hi Doug, That area is the storage yard for the bullet trains. I'm trying to get as much space into the storage area as possible. Maybe a ladder yard might give me longer track lengths? Thanks
I have seen layouts in Japan that were designed specifically for Bullet Trains. I will see if I can dig up a photo. I would re-consider the staging area in the lower right hand corner. The Bullet Trains are never takien apart and always stored and serviced as full units. So you need to have a long yard to store the whole thing. Most layouts I have seen have a double-ended yard where a number of trains are parked. For show-running the arrivel of one train triggers the departure of another one (after the turnpouts are thrown), which gives some nice variety for the audience. Not sure if you desire such a feature, but it makes for more intersting veiwing... I would not worry too muchabout too many tracks: Bullet Trains run in Japan, and the trackwork is amazingly dense therem with bridges, tunnels and complex yard ladders everywhere... If you look careful: Yes, that is another track on the blue bridge... One more idea: If you like Bullet trains, have a look at the Japanese Subway trains: There is a huge variety available by Tomix and MicroAce. If you have two separate loops you could run Bulklet Trains on one and Subway Trains on the other... Cheers Dirk
Dirk, Thanks for the photo. I was in Japan for work in 1998 and took the Bullet train from Tokyo to Nagano. I was amazed at how congested Tokyo was but how smoothly everything ran on their rail system. As I recall, when I left the station in Tokyo, and entered a viaduct, the trackwork was exactly like your photo and it was like that until we left Tokyo, about 30 min. Before I left Japan for the USA, I make sure I stopped at a hobby and purchased a few of the Kato Bullet and Tilt train sets, I have been collecting them ever since. 1-In the plan, between North 5 to 10 and South 5 to 10 (middle of the U) that is were I wanted to built large stations for the reason you described. As one Bullet train enters, another is prepared to leave. In another plan I'm doing, (paper & pencil) I have added 2 off shoot tracks in the South area of the U, for the reason you described. 2-I'm not wild about the storage yard but I need an area to store the other Bullet and Tilt trains when not in service. I take the train daily to work, the Long Island Railroad, and as we are about to enter NYC, we pass Amtrack's Sunny Side Yard. I noticed that there is a big oval entering the yard went trains come in, that is way I put a 16" radius oval in East (left side) 5 to 11, in order to get trains in and out, but I fear this yard might be too short for some Bullet trains. Dirk, thanks for your comments and the photo, that is exactly what I remember.
Bernard: What are your thoughts on this way of arranging the yard tracks and station? Continuous operation options are still the same--potentially 4 trains running at once--but you could also set up for a train or two to get ready on the other track so it can leave as soon as one of the orbiting 4 comes into the arrival track. Once the passengers are off the train, it can proceed to the yard (maybe parking for servicing on one of the tracks before going to the main yard...if you are interested in simulating that type of passenger train operation).
Bernard: If you decide to use a variation on this plan, the 4 station tracks should each be long enough for one entire bullet train (cars plus loco) and still clear turnouts at both ends, and the yard tracks should also be long enough to hold one train. If you start measuring at the stub end of the tracks, for one entire train on the shortest track, I think you'll be close to the middle of where the yard tracks curve to the left. The next 4 to 6 feet or so will be filled with your turnouts up to the throat of the yard. The next 3 feet (if you're careful about planning) will be turnouts splitting into the station tracks. The platforms should be as long as the passenger cars (but not necessarily as long as the cars plus the loco(s)). The next 1.5 feet will be turnouts connecting to the mains, and 1.5 feet beyond that will finish the crossover to permit right side running to and from the station. If you need more space to do all of this, it would be possible to shift the final connections to the main farther southwest along the mains in the lower left side of the layout.
Bernard, I am in Tokyo 2 to 3 times each year (work related), and the train system is just amazing. I can second your observation: Everything is smooth and clean! I took the Bullet Train to Yokohama, and it accelerates to 100 Miles per hour whilst still in Tokyo Downtown. :-o But the subways are crowded like crazy during rush-hour! Which hobby store did you go to? I had a look at Dave's trackplan: This is looking great! There is actually a huge subway storage yard south of Tokyo Central, close to the train station "Shinagawa". You can see it on Google Earth It is mostly linear and stub-ended, so Daves plan captures this very nicely. Cheers Dirk
Hi Dirk & Dave, I really like Dave's revisions especially the yard connecting to the main station area, as one train leaves another gets ready to take it's place. As I am writting this I am sitting down with a pencil & graph paper re-designing the yard. Dave plan gives me more space in the yard AND gets the next Bullet train onto the main line much quicker, by getting rid of the 16" radius oval. Dave, right now I'm Upstate (off from work this week) and can't wait to get started on the layout, I'll try later today to scan in a modified track plan. Thank you for taking the time and helping me out. I appreciate it. Dirk, I was in Japan in 1998 work related for the Nagano Olympics. Our crew had a direct flight from New York City to Tokyo non-stop (about 19 hrs) then we had to board a bus to Nagano. The bus took 7 1/2 hrs. At one point during the Olympics I had to get to Tokyo and then back to Nagano, I was booked on the Bullet train. The trip took 3 hrs there and 3 hrs back. It wasn't crowded, very clean and quite. You felt like you weren't moving at all, until you looked out at the window and saw buildings rushing by. Everything ran like clockwork, there was a map in each car lighting up everytime you reached a marked point on the map with the time the train got to that point. You could set your watch to this train. I never did get to go on the Japanese subway system which from the films I've seen looks extremely crowded. I do take the NYC subway system every day for work and it's crowded, messy and has delays. As for the hobby shop, toward the end of the Olympics I found that I was given the morning off because I was going to working late that night. I quicky got someone to tell me where I could find a Hobby shop in Nagano and they gave me directions. It was a very small shop and I still have the card somewhere. What I quickly relized is that most of the model trains in Japan are "N" scale due to their lack of space, you don't see a lot of HO. (forget about S or O scale) The Media village where our crews were staying were designed to be quickly taken apart after the Olympics and converted into family apartment units. Dirk, I don't know if you found this to be true but I found everything is designed to use space the most efficiantly and to be taken apart quickly and/or redesigned again. No surprise they developed Unitrack.
Hi Dave, Here is a revised plan of the East yard. The 16" radius loop is gone and now the trains are lined up to go onto the main line. I also made some revisions on the West side, adding a stream. I hope you can see where the 2 mountains will be going. The large mountain in the top left corner will have a removable top for access to track & train maintance. Your thoughts.
Bernard: I like the idea of hiding portions of southwest loops in the mountain. I'd encourage you to consider covering a little bit more of each, maybe as much as 90 degrees (1/4 circle) to disguise--even more--how the tracks curve back on themselves. Given the nature of model layouts, we often have loops that turn back on themselves, but for my layout, I prefer never seeing over a quarter of the loop's arc at any one moment. I have arranged view blocks (hills, buildings, trees) to hide some segment of most of the bends in track that exceed a quarter circle turn. Take a look at the "before" picture. Most of the arc is visible so the viewer knows the RR is bending back on itself fairly quickly...too obviously like a toy-like layout and not suggestive of vast distances to be covered before the next station or siding. After the modified shelf and scenery is in, part of the arc is obscured so the viewer sees a slight bend in this scene and in the scene around the "corner" that is visible if they turn 90 degrees to their left, but they can't see the "corner" itself, nor can they see both scenes at the same time, so the arrangement preserves the illusion that there is a longer distance between the two scenes.
Started construction of the layout. The track plan is drawn on the foam board and I've put down WS risers and the cork roadbed. Here is a pix of the progress of the Westside of the layout. The foam bridge that crosses over the track is going to be hidden in the mountain, as well as some of the riser closest to the camera. I was playing around trying to get ideas by putting buildings in that space (These are European structures I made in the past, unfortunately they're not Japanese) to see what might work, but I'm thinking more in the line of putiing a stream or river cutting arcoss the middle of this part of the layout.
More progress on the layout. I've put down all the WS risers and a lot of the cork roadbed. I still have a lot of work on the Eastside of the layout. The buildings are just there to try out different ideas. In the last thumbnail pix, most of the track will be hidden inside a mountain with a removable top.
