Hi all, A few years ago i visited the forums but never persued my layout, A tiny article in a Classical Music mag, got me back interested in model RR's Z specifically. I am a former armor modeler in 1/35 scale, diorama's also and now I build ships in 1/700. I want my focus to be on creating the most realistic scene possible while still having a working model RR. I am thinking along the lines of an industial scene, with a turntable or roundhouse, mills, a yard,etc. Or a mining RR. Having never seen a Z layout in person I would like to know if N and HO scale layouts can be done in Z by just scaling the layout down ? Also can the layouts as I described be made in an area of 2'x4'? Love the boards here, thanks Tony
Tony, Here is the deal. If 2x4 is your maximum size then Z will suit you. All the things you mentioned are available or easily built by you with your skills. That said, N scale has more locos and rolling stock to choose from. Also, N probably has all the buildings and accessories you need. Usually as the saying goes, "It's all about the money." In your case if "it's all about the size" then go with Z. I don't usually prompt someone to another site but, you may want to try: zcentralstation.com It is the largest Z scale site and will certainly be able to give you all the info you need. As well as thousands of Z photos and lines of info in the Forum section. I'm sure someone has a good website, if not this one, for N information. Lastly, I will admit that your goals in 2x4' are ambitious. I would like to see a Z scale layout with 30"x4'. An N layout where the train goes around will probably be this size as well to fit most curves. If you are thinking a lot of switching and yard work you may be better off in N scale. Below is a small yard on my Z layout. Cheers, Jim CCRR/Socalz44
For space and if you want a bette challange go Z scale. I've modelled in N-scale. I'd have to say the one problem you'll face is getting structures in z-scale for what you want to do. For what you want to do you'll have to look toward European manufacturers.
Hi Tony; I have been in N-scale and N-scale narrow gauge from the early 70's and early 80's and in Z since 2002. N-scale would probably be easier but space limited with lots of buildings and rolling stock and kits for just about anything you would want. Nn3 uses Z-scale mechanisms because you are using 6.5mm track and with modified shells to N-scale dimensions which will allow you to use Z-scale track with N-scale structures. So this is a compromise solution while lots of buildings and some really stunning laser cut kits in that mix, are available but, you have to build your rolling stock and power. Switching is like Z-scale below. Repulbic Locomotive Works dot com is the source for things Nn3 with trucks and couplers and some limited rolling stock from Micro Trains. While Z-scale allows the most space buildings are limited in availability but if you are used to building cardstock buildings then this might work. In addition there is a growing resource in laser cut building kits. Several of us have shown that you can alter the Micro Trains GP chassis to produce other engines styles and I am sure the SD40-2 is as easily customizable. As for switching Z-scale is possible with the right power pack or maybe DCC (I am new to DCC so still playing with it in Z but still DC in N and Nn3) you can probably get a good switching layout but it will take more work than in N-scale to get your couplers well located on your cars and engines and the magnets well placed. My own experience says body mounts give way more reliable service in switching than do the trucks with couplers attached which some refer to as talgo trucks in both N and Z scales. I also find that between the rail uncoupling magnets are not as good as those located below the roadbed so I use N-scale full roadbed width magnets cut in half located under the roadbed as my preference. When it comes to switching Z and Nn3 have the same requirements. For sources there are the Yahoo Groups for z_scale and nn3 (Yahoo! Groups replace with group name/) in addition to this forum and Z-Forum at Zcentralstation.com.
A couple of quick things. Structures have already been mentioned. Z Panzer makes some military items (http://www.z-panzer.com/) Track radius: If you want a circle/oval, Z at 11" radius will give you much better look for any longer cars. Or just look better for anything running on the curves. Track availability: Only Märklin has all the pieces for making any shape layout. Dual radius curves (although much less than ideal, 195mm [7.68"] and 220mm [8.66"]), crossing track, curved turnouts (avoid) and complex turnouts (e.g. slip switches). Their turnouts are manual or electric but have the large attachment on the side. It also has large tie spacing and the rail head is 30% wider than MTL's track. Otherwise it is flex track and hand-laid turnouts. Micro-Trains (MTL) makes great flex track. Also sectional track and turnouts (with simulated roadbed, ala Kato-like) but you are limited to dual radius curves and only 2 lengths of straights, nothing like the Märklin selection. With N, you'll get it all. But then again, you won't get the challenge. Or us See the thread: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=117036&page=2 For what can be down in a 25x15" size. Note the common "yard sale - no parking sign" for size reference. . With N scale
Tony, In addition to Nn3 which is American trains, there is Nm which is Swiss meter guage. Here is a site to check out, but they are expensive. GLEIS-Tech Gröbli Robert
Z-scale needs more skilled modelers, and as you indicated, your goal is to create the most realistic scenes possible. If you like challenges, Z is your scale. To build something unique, you need to scratch build, kit bash substantially more than in any other scale. A small 2' X 3' or 2' X 4' layout or module is the perfect choice. The best Z-scale layouts, modules and dioramas are small. The best Z-scale modelers understand, there is so much room for details in a small space, it's impossible to do the same on a large layout. To start, I suggest to visit John Cubbin's site: Ztrains: Z Scale (1:220) Model Railroading Information
Thanks Hi all, Ok thanks, I am still quite confused, but reading these boards and ( I did find the Z Central and John;s site) have helped my so far. I have alot or reading and research to do yet I see that. The reason I like Z is the layout size, i can go 24 x 48 or slightly bigger. In N I think I would have to go quite big to pack the same layout into the space But I do like the size of N as my eyes are not what they use to be. I like working in miniature but it's one thing to work on the bench small, I'd like to be able to work with the layout without straining to see what I am doing. Decisions, decisions......... How small realisticly can I go with an N layout ?? Thanks Tony
Fellow Z'eds, I think Tony needs to see some layout detail, for inspiration post a few of your fave shots or links to Fine-Scale-Modelling. http://www.torsja.com/modelltog/Models_by_Torsja/Modells_by_Torsja.asp http://jamesriverbranch.net/gallery.htm .
Yes and............. Thinking, thinking, not good for me sometimes !!!!!!! All in all due to space limitations I think Z is the scale for me. I really don't know which vendors are preferred my most of you Z guys and gals. Can you please give me a few dealer sites that you recommend? I also need to know where I can buy everything. track, rolling stock, Loco's, building kits etc. in Z. I have heard that Z caters to the EU market as far as hardware is concerned ie' Trains . Is this the case? I am not looking to model any particular railroad just a fictional RR of my design. I see that the layout related hardware is not too expensive but the Loco's are another matter completely. I would think it's wiser to see what Trains are available before settling on a layout design or type of layout. I think now that a mining RR preferably Steam might be the ticket for me as I want to incorporate mountains, hills and water in addition to some flat land. Hopefull modeled after a real mine of some type, model the mine and make up the railroad is good for me. As I mentioned elsewhere my goal is a train related miniature diorama but with a running RR Anything you people in the know can think of that I have not addressed please comment, I need all the help and info I can get. Now it still comes down to size, I think I can do 28/30" x 48 or so. What can I really do with this? Thanks Tony
Hi Tony, My entire layout is only 30"x42" x9" tall and it fits in a large "flat file" cabinet at my office. Here's a link to my photos on TrainBoard: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/album.php?albumid=544 So you can certainly get a lot of Z scale on a small layout like 30"x42". And here's a link to a bad video of the entire layout with a train going around it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdagiZ8gZo8 I like Z scale for its size - it does allow me to create a lot of layout on a very small footprint. But its scale does pose lots of challenges. But I like the rewards as well. Keep following your dreams, that's the most important thing. And have fun! Bill Mock
Bill Beautiful layout Bill, the groundwork is fantastic. Now I see what can be done in a small area. Yes I agree I like the challenge of Z more than anything. The smaller and more precise things are the more I like them. I am up the the challenge. With spring and summer coming though I don't foresee alot of progress this year till fall. I should have started this in Oct, I am in construction and we have 00000000000 work now ! Thanks Tony
Actually, I like to start my benchwork in the summer months, and move on to scenery in the winter. So far I have built all my modules framework in summer months.
Wish I had the time in summer, between work and outdoor pursuits it;s just not there. Can always hope though. I have my work cut out for me with this whole Z layout, I do love to research so' Ill be happy
Hey Robert I was just on the N forum and notice that you may have one of THE longest running threads from back in 2000 the Rapido Coupler in N scale: The Ever Present Rapido Nightmare! - Page 3 - TrainBoard.com Congrats! John
To give some perspective, Z is roughly 3/4 the size of N. If you build a 24"x48" layout in Z you need 33"x66" to build the exact same layout in N. Both scales are good, but N has a lot more available. I think that it ultimately depends on which scale more appeals to you. Good luck with your choice.
Well Hmmmmmm Joe yes, but what can I do with N in a 28 x 48 area ? I have seen some pretty nice layouts in this size though. I just don't know enough about this to really make any kind of educated choice yet. I have heard many comments on availability of Z scale products vs N products. I think in the end I may have to go with N as then I can at least not worry about designing my layout around products available but be able to build my layout and then choose from alof of products being sold in N scale to equip my layout with. I think I have settled on a mining type layout as I want some vertical elements, and I know that in N I have a big assortment of Loco's and cars to choose from. makes it much easier for a new guy to this. I do love the look of the tiny Z layouts but am really starting to be skeptical about tackling such a project right off the bat. Thanks Tony
Start small. Pick one of John Cubbin's 24 x 36 plans. You can't beleive how much detail can be placed into that small layout. It's a shocking surprise.
