Hello! If you don't mind, have a look at this, please. The basic yard plan is straight from Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation". I've added engine service detail, plus RIP, MOW and Car service. The latter three should be somewhat featured, scenically speaking. To the south (down), the main heads out to loop around a coal mine, one of the major sources of revenue. To the north (up), the main curves into the town of Frost River, which features several industries and a large chemical plant. I haven't worked out the whole operational plan, but there will be regularly scheduled coal runs from the mine, interchange with NS and CSX, loads/empties for the chemical plant, manifest freights, and a passenger excursion. I want to keep an operator busy switching the yard while various through runs (the coal units and passenger excursions) tie up the main. I've got two versions, slight variations on the same theme. (sorry about the "tall" pics) Option 1: Left to right across the bottom: 1: Main 2-3: A/D tracks 4-6: yard body 7: MOW 8: RIP and car shop lead Left to right across the top: 1: Main 2: Yard lead (same length as longer A/D) 3: Caboose storage 4: Engine out 5: Engine in 6: Coal, sand, and ash I don't have all of the roundhouse tracks drawn in. The story on coal is that it used to be tied into the yard ladder until they switched heavily to diesel and built the new car shop. With only the museum's steam engine to service, the lead was cut and access is via the turntable. Longest A/D track is 44", caboose track is about 12", and total yard capacity is 2300 scale feet. Questions here would include whether to tie the caboose track back into the yard lead or leave it single-ended. And general improvements, given that I want to feature the "auxiliary services" here. And here's Option 2: Here, I've moved the car shop and MOW ready track closer to the roundhouse, at the expense of engine storage capacity. RIP track is still in front, and I've added a fourth yard body track. Also, coal/ash/sand is on a stub track, not the roundhouse. What do you think? Thanks for the advice!! Oh, one change I don't show but am considering. I left off the passing track/passenger track shown on Armstrong's plan. To add that, I'll have to shift the mainline over a few inches, so I haven't done that yet. The passing track goes on the opposite side of the main from the A/D track and goes around the crossover between main and yard lead. This allows the switcher to use the main if necessary without blocking through trains, while also creating an optional passenger platform. If I do that, though, I have less room on the front for scenic details.
The big thing that bothers me is that a loco can not move directly from an A/D track to the facility/roundhouse with out a reverse move. Have you thought of building the yard ladder on the bottom and then simply extending one of the stubs through the top to the service facilities? Also, I like the location of the car shop in the second plan better than the first option.
Yeah, that concerns me too. If I put the ladder on the bottom, there's no room for the yard lead. Well, there is, but it would have to cross a drop-leaf, and I want the yard to be functional when the drop-leaf is down. I could shift the turntable a bit and tie the leftmost engine track into the yard lead... it would cause some coordination issues between the road engine and switcher, but at least northbound engines could get to the turntable in two moves...
I could live quite nicely with the first design. I don't mind the reverse move if that is what it takes to get a decent utility out of the yard, which should be one's primary consern. The first offers the far better utility and visual appeal...with one exception. I would want to see at least one, preferrably two crossovers for the sake of engine escape...because you have largely a stub-end series of ladder tracks. If you had the room to make the yard double-ended (fully symmetrical), you would not need them...although, as a great fan of double-slip turnouts, I would have two. I would begin the yard lead nearly a foot higher on the diagramme as you have it currently, use #7 turnouts, maybe #6 into the ladders, and try to double-end it into a diamond of sorts, or trapezoid. You want a longer lead is what I am saying so that engines could cut off, continue along the lead, and reverse into the service facility. A switcher would come behind the head end power once it cuts off and continue to shove into the ladders as needed.
I think that the second one looks better overall. I do agree that you should try to double-end the yard if possible though. Makes operations more fluid. BTW, many real-world yards require a reverse move to get from the A/D tracks to the servicing facilities. But then again, that's what hostlers are for.
Crandall, I'm not quite sure I'm following your suggestion here about the crossovers and the yard lead change. I want to understand so I can see what to do... The lead itself extends another 35" above the edge of the image, giving its overall length from the ladder proper equal to the longest (leftmost) A/D track. I'm not expecting the road engines to ever find themselves in any of the stub-ended tracks, as those are purely for classification, which is why I dropped the double-endedness in favor of a few more inches of storage length. Maybe I'm messed up, but what I had pictured in my head was that the train would pull into tracks 1 or 2 (the double-ended ones) and disconnect, using either the unused A/D or (quickly) the main to run around if needed and head toward engine service. The switcher would then pull the whole train onto the yard lead and classify it into tracks 3-5 (or 6). Switcher would then build the new train from tracks 3-5 onto track 1 or 2, road power would couple up and leave from there. Since the only thing "south" of the yard is the coal mine (and the fictional, unmodeled NS interchange), I expect most of the traffic to be headed "north", so if I do have to use one of the stub-ended leads to build a train, the road power will be attaching to the ladder-end anyway (with a quick pause on exit to hook the caboose on). So, where would the crossovers go? And which way did you mean "a foot higher" for the lead? A foot parallel to or perpendicular to the mainline? Thanks!
Yard Design Rules There are several rules for yard design. Since they outline what you should not do (thou shalt not), they are sometimes called the Ten Commandants of Yard Design. There are many variations on these, but good to know the "rules."
Twindad, in the first diagramme, your lead starts nearly a foot into a tangent that is inboard of your main line along the side of the bench, probably your AD track? If you could back that turnout up towards the top another 10-14" (or as much as you can without compromising other important functions), the ladder track lead that follows can start just as soon as you have depicted it, but yielding longer one that will offer more utility/lenght, or even for you to have it symmetrically laddered on the other end...maybe. The crossovers I was thinking about often are in the form of a diagonal track comprising two or three double slips, or they are simply turnouts and the necessary reaching short tangents to get to a complimentary one facing it on the next track, but the idea is to allow the engine to side-slip/escape/run around once it is involved on as many of the ladder tracks running parallel to the AD track as you can. So, to be clear, I am only wondering if you might benefit from some crossovers somewhere along your (I count) six ladder tracks where classification would take place. As for having to reverse the engine, I don't know that it can be helped where the roundhouse and TT are situated, and that goes for the yard as a stub or as a trapezoidal shape closed at both ends.
Crandell, thank you for your patience, but I'm still not quite understanding. Let's try one more time with this annotated image: OK. This pic shows only the "head" end of the yard. Main, Lead and Caboose tracks are labeled as such, and the key turnouts are lettered A, B, C, D and E. Let's say North is the direction from C to A, and East is the direction C to D. Now what I think you're saying is... umm.... I dunno. I just can't get it into my thick head. Can you explain this one more time in terms of "Move turnout A North xxx amount and change turnout B to..." I'm sorry, I just don't understand. OK, I do understand this. I'll consider it, but I may run into cost issues. Well, with trains coming from either direction, one engine or the other is going to have to reverse itself. I think that's just going to have to be OK. Again, thanks. I think you're trying to tell me something important, and I don't want to miss it.
I have to apologize...I got my turnouts mixed up. I thought I had it right, because I took a look at the first graphic to be sure, but I obviously screwed it up. Let's try once more. As I look at it, the entire roundhouse and TT could be moved upward. Maybe not much, but some...6" maybe. Then, turnouts A & B could be moved from 6'8" upward to 8'. Same angle. Same configuration, and then lengthen everything they join to to meet them as they do in this graphic. You buy yourself a fair bit of leg room for that yard. Agreed about the engine having to reverse at least one way...and I don't have a problem...reality is reality...physics is physics. At turnout E, you encounter a ladder lead. When you take any of the second turnout up (not the first it encounters...) or the next, or the next, and also the rightmost ladder track, and enter any of those...at some point, you could cross over to the one next on the left...closer to the AD. You can do a series of these making an effective diagonal tangent until it encounters the yard lead on the far side, or the AD, depending on what's there and how you want to do it. These could be double slips to permit the engine taking the turnouts to move only to the next turnout, or simply cross over to the ladder track after that one....in other words, create an 'alley' for diagonal crossing for the engine that leads and doesn't shove into what you may have to leave as stubs for ladder tracks. Provide flexibility for the switchers so they can escape laterally....if you follow. Another way, to help you to see what I mean...at the 2' mark, you have a partial diagonal started, but it truncates at what I would call the first real ladder track. If you mentally continue that angle, via double-slips (yes, they sure do cost...) you would end up at the furthest right ladder about where I think it should start. I hope that makes sense. Even if all those turnouts can't practically be included, would you consider one or two to permit the same effective angle between any two ladder tracks? Even a simple #6 between any two pairs of those ladder tracks affords your switchers some flexibility to run around and shove instead of pull into those stubs.
I suggest switching the cab track and m-o-w track, putting the cabooses closer to where shop personnel can make minor fixes and stock the supplies. Sometimes supply houses are shared by caboose and locomotive supply laborers and crews.
Crandell: Thanks!! I think I finally get it. You're basically suggesting I pull the ladder farther north, stretching the body tracks, by more efficiently positioning the engine house. I think. And I *am* considering adding the far-end ladder (or diagonal track) at the south end, as you advocate... BnOEngrRick: Funny, I put the caboose track there so the conductors would be close to the yard office! The revised plan (not yet posted) ditches the stub caboose track in favor of a track parallel to the runaround for the ladder. This keeps the cabs close to the yard office, makes the track double ended, and makes a path not too far from car service. Thing is, the more I work on this, the more it looks so complex I might try scrapping it for something far simpler... I think what I'm building from all these suggestions is a wonderful yard, but it might just overwhelm the rest of my layout...
Having been an old fashion draftsman vs a computer geek, this is a cut and paste job vs CAD drawing. Hopefully it shows improvements to your design especially the yard lead & caboose track. On the real RRs leads aren't left "dangling in the air" but tied into a mainline or siding. Was this a function of your cad program? Also was able to make the caboose spur a siding by moving the turntable/roundhouse up. That way it can be worked from both ends depending on which caboose is needed and where it needs to go. This reduces alot of extra movements and keeps your conductors & engineers happy (read the operators)!
Cabooses on road freights would usually be on the train when it is built. When the train is ready to depart, the rear end crew would either be taxied back to the caboose or catch it as the train pulls out of the yard.
Thanks, Andy, for the suggestions. I actually only left the yard lead dangling because I hadn't decided what I wanted to do with the track in that area... I will either tie it back into the main or meld it into an industrial siding. As for the caboose, in the revised version I flipped it and made it a second yard ladder runaround, so it's double-ended and one of the ends is closer to the service tracks. I've also moved the RIP tracks on to a "sub-yard" whose lead is the last track on the main ladder. Frankly, this yard is getting pretty massive for the layout it's going on. I might just strip it down to the bare essentials, including a simpler "diesel era" engine area, and see if that doesn't fit better. Oh, and I added a passing siding on the left side of the main. It connects back in below the edge of the image. As for the south end, I haven't made any significant changes yet. Yet.
Would highly recommend moving the LH Xover above all the yard tracks. Also put the RH in its place & have your mailine siding end just below the RH Xover. With your current design you have to make alot of switchback moves to get to & from the yard. You could still leave the yard lead/drill track "hanging loose". But if your trains are going to be more than 2 yard tracks long, you'll soon realize the need for connecting its end to the main. BTW saw your design on LDSIG so you should be getting alot of good criticisms there!
