Wisconsin & Southern SD20

Ryan Wilkerson Jun 26, 2000

  1. Ryan Wilkerson

    Ryan Wilkerson TrainBoard Member

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    Does anyone know what chassis could be used to scratch build an SD20? I looked at it and it looks like an SD35 chassis and cab/nose would work with a SD9 rear section. Anyone have any good pics of one or know where to find some? I saw a small picture in, I think, Railfan magazine. Has anyone tried this project? Any details I should look out for? Thaks in advance.

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    -Ryan Wilkerson
     
  2. chessie

    chessie TrainBoard Supporter

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    I am not familiar with the W&S SD20's, but I am guessing they are SD24 rebuilds. As such, the SD35 underframe would be correct (the SD7/9/18/24/35's all share the same underframe). In fact, Atlas will be releasing their "Classic" line of SD7/9's at some point in the future and can use their new SD35 chassis. If the W&S units have the new "Spartan" style cab (not the older,rounded top version), then the SD35 cab and nose would probably be suitable. As far as the long hood, the SD9 may be a good strting point, but there are lots of detail differences between SD9's and 24's. Maybe Atlas will bring out an SD24!

    Chessie
     
  3. Gats

    Gats Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Ryan,

    I'm in the, albeit slow, process of building an ICG SD20. I'm not sure if the WSOR unit is of ICG heritage but if it is, then the Atlas/Kato SD7/9 mechanism is what I am using for mine. This should be the same, though upgraded, mechanism that is in the new SD35. The combination of SD35 front and SD9 rear would be correct (I started my model prior to the announcement of the SD35's). There is a lot of modifications to be made to the handrails and walkways, but the SD35 should prevent most of these.
    I have a few pics lying around in magazines, plus a few I took myself of the Twin Cities and Western's sole surviving SD20, 601. Additional photos can be found here.
    Hope this is of help.

    Gary.


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    Gary A. Rose
    The Unofficial TC&W page
    N to the Nth degree!

    [This message has been edited by Gats (edited 26 June 2000).]
     
  4. Gats

    Gats Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    To continue on Chessie's line of thought, the big difference is the inertial filter intake and electrical cabinets located behind the cab. This required fabrication of that section giving the rebuilds that humped look of the big ALCo's and later built, (early model)GE Dash-8's.
    I'll have to check through the various Deisel Eras I have, but as Chessie mentioned, the big difference between the 7/9 and 24 was the blower bulge on the left side of the 24 that was missing on the SD7/9.

    Gary.
     
  5. chessie

    chessie TrainBoard Supporter

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    The SD24 was EMD's first turbocharged 6 axle unit therefore the exhaust details will be probably be different on the 24 versus its 7/9 kin. If they are ex-ICG units, I believe one of the major features of the rebuild was to "de-turbo" the unit, which means it probably returned to 2 or possible 4 exhaust stacks. Also, upgraded electrical cabinets may have been installed, as well as paper air filters (a common de-turbo application), and the dynamic brakes may have been removed. Check the prototype photos to be sure. ICG ran a very interesting loco rebuilding operation.

    Chessie
     
  6. drbooher

    drbooher Guest

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    Ryan,

    If you go to this site, there are some pictures and a roster. The SD20 pictures are on the Southern Lines pages. The roster lists these as ex NREX locos, with 3 still in IC paint. If you want to compare these rebuilt units to an SD24, there is a drawing here.

    I assume the spartan cabs were added in the rebuild, since they were introduced on the 35 series. Also note that the original nose (with the blunt end instead of coming to a point) has been retained. So in this case, the SD35 nose would be incorrect, but the cab would be correct. Also of note is that some SD20's were converted from Chessie System SD35's. I don't think that this concerns any of the WSOR units, though.

    The Chessie also had 5 SD20's. It's probably safe to assume that IC rebuilt these as well.

    Dwight

    p.s. I just noticed that if you follow the second link in Gats' message above and look at the picture of 2039, it obviously used to be an SD35 while 2030 was an SD24.


    [This message has been edited by drbooher (edited 26 June 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by drbooher (edited 26 June 2000).]
     
  7. Maxwell Plant

    Maxwell Plant TrainBoard Member

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    The "Chessie" SD35 rebuilds are called SD20-2's. RoyalBlue has plans of building one from the current Atlas SD35's. Same cab and nose but the carbody needs a little "cuttin'". If the early IC/ICG rebuilds used the origional cabs, (However, seeing these "SD-Rattlers" almost daily in Central Illinois. I never saw any with the old cabs.) use the GP20 cab from the new Life-Like. It will slide right in. All the new Atlas and Life-Like loco's are made at the same factory in China. The main difference is the gearing in the trucks. Other than that, same frames, bodies and motors.

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    RAILROADING-TO-THE-MAX, Burlington Northern/Santa Fe Style!
    Brent Tidaback, Member #234
     
  8. drbooher

    drbooher Guest

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    Oops.. I guess it's not safe to assume that IC rebuilt those units for Chessie. [​IMG] I just looked it up and B&O is listed as the rebuilder for the SD20-2's. That's what I get for trusting the model RR magazine index. Thanks for pointing out the correct desgination Brent.

    Speaking of the index... The June '85 Model Railroader's Paint Shop describes how to paint an ICG SD20 in N scale. I don't know if this is a kitbash or if there was a brass model available, but it should be a helpful article regardless.

    Btw, where did the ICG get the SD24's from anyway? I can't find any reference to them being on the roster before the rebuilds. Or am I making another bad assumption that they were rebuilt from SD24's?

    Dwight
     
  9. chessie

    chessie TrainBoard Supporter

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drbooher:


    Btw, where did the ICG get the SD24's from anyway? I can't find any reference to them being on the roster before the rebuilds. Or am I making another bad assumption that they were rebuilt from SD24's?

    Dwight
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I know that Southern Railway had high nosed SD24's that were sold to Precision National (dealer) which later re-sold them to ICG. I think they also received some Union Pacific "B" units; both required the fabrication of the new "spartan style" cab with the application of the low nose.

    Chessie
     
  10. Maxwell Plant

    Maxwell Plant TrainBoard Member

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    Really, I'm not sure. That would of been a little before my time, I was born in '64 so I missed out on alot of the early second generation stuff in it's original form. The only road I know for a fact that had the SD24 was the Santa Fe. Maybe they got some of them from there? [​IMG]

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    RAILROADING-TO-THE-MAX, Burlington Northern/Santa Fe Style!
    Brent Tidaback, Member #234
     
  11. drbooher

    drbooher Guest

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    Thanks, Chessie. After I posted that, I started searching through my copy of Diesel Locomotive Rosters and was wondering if that was where those locos disappeared to. Looking at the pictures of the rebuilds, I couldn't tell if the short hood sloped down like a low-nose SD24 should. Having chopped-noses would account for that.

    Brent, the Santa Fe rebuilt all of their SD24's into SD26's at the San Bernardino shops in the early 70's.

    Dwight
     
  12. Gats

    Gats Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chessie:
    I know that Southern Railway had high nosed SD24's that were sold to Precision National (dealer) which later re-sold them to ICG. I think they also received some Union Pacific "B" units; both required the fabrication of the new "spartan style" cab with the application of the low nose.

    Chessie
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The first 9 rebuilds in 1979 were ICG 2000-08 and were from UP SD24B's.
    Three ex-UP SD24's became 2009-11, followed by 2012-24 - the ex-Southern SD24's Chessie mentioned - all in 1980.
    The remainder of the SD20 (2025-2041) fleet was built in 1982 from one ex-UP SD24, one ex-UP SD24B, 3 ex-UP SD7's, 8 ex-Southern SD24's and 4 ex-B&O SD35's, the SD35's becoming 2038-41.
    All the above were obtained from PNC.

    The noses are not sloped as far as I know. The ATSF units may have had EMD supplied nose 'kits'. EMD had supplied these kits in the past for GP rebuilds - Soo 4203 being one of them.

    Also a note about the ICG SD20's - when the cab was rebuilt, it was moved 12" forward of the original position. I learnt the hard way about this one! [​IMG]
    The project as it stands...

    Gary.

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    Gary A. Rose
    The Unofficial TC&W page
    N to the Nth degree!
     
  13. DaveD

    DaveD TrainBoard Member

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    Looks interesting Gary... It's nice to see the process the model goes through before finished.

    I'm working on doing DM&IR and EJ&E SD9 and SD18 (SD-M) rebuilds. I'm using LL SD7/9s along with the steps and cab from the LL GP20. By replacing the steps, I'm forced to use wire handrails, which I wanted to avoid. But hopefully it will turn out. One thing that's also tough is the fans. They replaced the original fans with numerous types of 48" fans. Some top hat type, some with the high rim.

    I also want to do Pacific harbor Line SD24/18s.

    Dave D.
    Los Angeles CA
    The Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Photo Archive & E-Mail List: http://eje.railfan.net
    The Ashley, Drew & Northern Railfan Page: http://eje.railfan.net/adn
    Southern California Trains: http://eje.railfan.net/socal
     
  14. Gats

    Gats Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks Dave, and welcome to Trainboard.
    I tried to find a pic of a rebuilt DM&IR SD, but the one I have is not a good shot. Deepak Das has an unofficial site that will have more shots on it. I will check that out later to see what mods you are doing.

    Gary.

    [This message has been edited by Gats (edited 27 June 2000).]
     
  15. DaveD

    DaveD TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks Gary,

    I actually have a bunch of pics from my site. Many of the DMIR units have come to the EJ&E and are still in DMIR paint. So there's basically three SD-M type units paint scheme wise, even though details can differ.

    Here's an SD-M brought to the J from DMIR http://eje.railfan.net/jbejerd10.html

    Here's a rebuilt SD18 brought from Bessemer & Lake Erie. You can see the slope nose on this one. http://eje.railfan.net/jbejerd09.html

    And this is an SD-M on DMIR... A rebuilt SD18 also, but has a flat nose. http://eje.railfan.net/dmir321.html

    The GP20 nose works for the sloped nose. On the flat nose, I've started using the original high nose and cutting it down.

    I also wouldn't mind doing EJ&E SD38s, but that would be a lot of work. I'm mostly interested in EJ&E and all the other Transtar RRs. I have a large site showing EJ&E and the other roads below.

    Like I said, the fans are one of the biggest pains. The fan from the GP20 works for the top hat type best I think, but you only get one per shell. Maybe I can give one to Craig and he can make a bunch for me. ;) If you look at the fans on the various SD-Ms on Dee's page, you'll see what I mean. There's no rhyme or reason to which kind they used.

    I just did a high nose EJ&E SD9 from a LL SD9/7 and used fans from a GP35, plus a Sunrise winter hatch over the first fan. They still aren't right, but they are close. I used .5 sheet to make the fan plate. You can see it here: http://eje.railfan.net/models_mycustom_n01.html

    Oh, and here's one of those PHL units... Ex CNW SD24s turned into 18s. I think this would be a great model too. I shot this one myself. http://EJE.Railfan.net/socal/phl13.html

    Dave D.
    Los Angeles CA
    The Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Photo Archive & E-Mail List: http://eje.railfan.net
    The Ashley, Drew & Northern Railfan Page: http://eje.railfan.net/adn
    Southern California Trains: http://eje.railfan.net/socal
     
  16. Danimal

    Danimal TrainBoard Member

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    I gotta say it again guy's, man am I jealous of your modeling skills Gats!!!!!
     
  17. Gats

    Gats Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DaveD:
    Thanks Gary,

    I just did a high nose EJ&E SD9 from a LL SD9/7 and used fans from a GP35, plus a Sunrise winter hatch over the first fan. They still aren't right, but they are close. I used .5 sheet to make the fan plate. You can see it here: http://eje.railfan.net/models_mycustom_n01.html

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hey, Dan, it's not just me, amongst others. Check Dave as well. That is one sweet SD re-build [​IMG]

    I was wondering about the nose after you mentioned it. The cab must have been moved forward from the normal SD7/9 position, on these units, as the nose look the same length as the GP18/20.

    Gary.

    ps. For those interested, I am putting together a photo how-to for recreating GP10 Paducah-builts. Watch for details soon!

    G.

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    Gary A. Rose
    The Unofficial TC&W page
    N to the Nth degree!
     
  18. Danimal

    Danimal TrainBoard Member

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    My apologies gentlemen [​IMG] ALL of you make me envious!
     

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