Wiring Versus Track Laying

I had a interesting discussion about wiring and various methods used to accomplish the same or similar purposes. At lunch, three of us model rail's got together to discuss the various pro's and con's of wiring.

As I set there listening and attempting to get my two cents in, I took off on a mental vacation... reflecting on the thoughts shared, when it hit me. First let me set the stage.

My wiring is less then admirably pretty. I mean it's under the table and designed to be out of sight and out of mind. Not that I'm going to change how I wire in my railroads anytime soon, as I'm working on a penny budget.

The other two gents have impeccable wiring. One coming from having served as a telephone repair man and the other a heat and cooling expert. Their wiring is perfect for getting down under the table and checking it out. Amazing and beautiful. Down side and this is what hit me. If either of these gents had taken the same amount of time and effort with their track work....I wonder? Do you see what I'm getting at here. You are so right...read on I will explain.

For me it's about my trains, track work, running the trains smoothly and without hiccups. I want my track work and train operations to be as trouble free as is possible. So, I put all my effort into assuring the track work isn't going to give me trouble. Never mind where it's located and the trouble mother nature keeps throwing at me. My wiring on the other hand is out of sight and who wants to look at wiring anyways? Don't you want to see trains run?

These two fine fellows are semi-experts at wiring. I do find that helpful but wonder why I'm explaining the attributes, pit falls and benefits of using DPDT electrical toggles.

I have appreciated their compliments toward my track work. I've complimented their wiring but guess who, is trouble shooting their track work? Yep, I didn't like the sound of that either, though true. I'd rather take the time to put in the track work correctly the first time, then to have to trouble shoot it and remodel it later.

There's no doubt that we each enjoy doing our own thing. I have to wonder if they'd put the same amount of time and effort into the track work as they do the wiring, what kind of a model railroad would they have? Or, if we team up. I could supervise the track work while they supervise the wiring...now we might have something there.

My wiring does the job. Gets my trains from point A to point B and back. Hosts DCC nicely without any failures on any part of the layout. And yes, I play with smaller gauged wires then most of you here. My smallest being 18 to 20 gauge. 20 gauge for wire drops and 18 gauge to run any distance over six feet. 22 gauge for switch machines.

Prompting the question, where would you put your greatest effort and emphasis? Track or Wiring? Wiring or Track, Track or Wiring? Does it really matter?


It's your model railroad and you make the rules. cool:

 

I work in electronics, I'm have to be neat in my wiring in my job, but I know that I don't have to be a total perfectionist for my own work.

Wiring won't derail a train. It can be messy, spaghettified, uncouth, but as long as it's wired according to the plan, and nothing shorts out, it's OK. And it's easy to fix if something goes wrong. You just have to know what wire does what and where it goes. Orderliness helps in that department, but one doesn't have to go nuts about it.

Trackwork has to be neat. It's where the action is. It has to be laid down correctly, secured correctly, and joined correctly. A tiny subtlety in alignment can derail a sensitive piece of rolling stock or locomotive. And there's always one sensitive customer in the lot. Usually a favorite one.

I can locate and fix a wiring glitch in a few minutes. On the other hand, finding a subtle problem in the track can take time, and once located, will require more time and effort to fix it. So neat trackwork saves a lot more time and cussing than a little messy wiring.

The neatest wiring in the universe isn't worth beans if the train can't stay on the track.

 

Hi Rick: First, kudos to you for your great thought provoking posts. I'm kind of a detail oriented person, so I tried to emphasize good wiring and track practices on my layout. I like that old saw, "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right". I think where some people run into trouble, is getting something done, temporarily, to see if it works, and if it does, move on to something else, letting the temporary become permanent. I did track work and wiring in sections. I got each section working and as good as I could get it, before moving on to the next section. But, that's just how I built my layout. So far, everything works well, and no derailments, unless I do something dumb. DJ.

 

Thank-you for the kudos. Right back at you for sharing your thoughts.

I like your building concept...sounds good to me.

 

I was trained to be an Electrician, and worked as a Signal maintainer for 31 years. Wiring is one of my strong points. I am also good at track laying and have no derailments on my layout. Good track laying and correct wiring go hand in hand. Laying all the track first and then trying to wire it can lead to problems. I usually put down track, wire it, run a train to end of track and move on to the next section. Neat wiring is nice but it can be neatened up after the track and wiring are done. Nothing wrong with sloppy wiring either as long as it works.

 

Can't have one without the other, but I will say this: if my trackwork looked like my wiring, I'd have some seriously meandering trains, if my wiring looked like my trackwork, they'd still run just about as well as they do now, but the wires would be straighter.

Gotta have good trackwork to run well, but I think merely adequate wiring is OK.

IMHO

Todd

 

I dunno, which is the most important part to making a baby? Father or Mother?

Crappy trackwork is just as annoying as crappy wiring. Either one leads to stalled trains. There should be more thought given to the wiring, though, for future troubleshooting. A seven year old can figure out that the track needs to line up, stay put, be a consistent width, etc. for the train to move smoothly, and can usually pinpoint the spot where the train always uncouples. Just watching closely again and again may pinpoint the problem. You can't watch electrons, though. An electronics genius won't be able to make heads or tails out of your rat's nest if you use the same color wires everywhere, switch colors randomly, all the pitfalls. Ten years from now, some young whippersnapper may be giving you a hand - or more likely, an eye, since you can't see so well by then - with your layout. You can't remember what you did. He can't figure it out. What happens? Cut the feeders and leave them there and re-do all the rest.

Wiring doesn't need to be perfect, in looms. But it should be logical.

 

This is a great topic!! I’m in constant awe of the pictures submitted on this webboard of everyone’s accomplishments. In this particular case, some of the under bench wiring shown on other threads is stunning.

Everyone seems to have their strong points and, unfortunately, their weak ones in this hobby. That’s what I love about Trainboard. Everyone participating gets to show off their strong suit and in doing so, gives all of us a helping hand.
There are so many facets to this hobby: design, bench construction, track laying, wiring, scenery, structures, photography, etc.. There are darned few us out there that are really good at every aspect. I sure as heck aint’ much good at any of it but still strive to be good enough to keep my fascination going. I love it when, in this case the wiring guys, post pictures or tips of how they do things. Likewise, when all my other fellow modelers out there post ideas and pics of their strong suit(s). It only advances the hobby. I dare to think what my layout would look like if I didn’t check in on this site daily to learn so much of what I never would have figured out on my own.

As far as wiring goes on my layout, it’s very simple in construction and easy to understand. The best part is it’s electrically bullet proof. It is however uglier than a wet alpaca. I think it was a case of getting tired of dripping wet solder into my open mouth while lying on my back under the bench that sped me through the process. Or maybe it was a case of just wanting to get the fleet moving down the rails as soon as possible. At any rate I’m happy with it and my ability to control the electrons consistantly. In the end that’s what is most important to me.

Brian

 

I like to see the best track work first. I have done wiring on the job but, that was 440 AC on large generators. My small wiring is self taught for my own use. My planing is my down fall. Have a well laid out wiring is very helpful for diagnoses. Especially if some one else has to do it. I like a lot of labeling as well.

 

I'm not able to add anything here but I found this post and replies to be fascinating.

 

I agree with this.

To a point, neither bad track work nor slipshod wiring is acceptable.

Interesting that this should have come up today. Last night, I had a bit of a wiring nightmare on the club layout where I am a Prospective member.

It was work night and I had found the previous week that a section of track was not working on Cab 3. So I volunteered to pull the panel off and trace out the fault.


I had been warned how bad it was, but I still wasn't prepared. The wire lengths from toggle to bus were far too short, no labeling and badly done soldering, oh and the wires ran right in front of the toggle blocks, so you couldn't fix a problem without melting another cable. And of course the original creator didn't understand the concept of strain relief.
Every time I fixed one problem another wire would pop loose.

I left the panel in worse shape than I found it and this week we're going to be limping through with only one main working.

My fault for offering my services.

One of the senior members is going to buy new toggles and I offered to redo the whole thing over the weekend.

I'm not wiring perfectionist either. In fact I hate doing it, but it is precisely because I hate doing it that I'm going to make it a little bit easier on the next guy.

 

This is a timely topic for me. I'm adding Phase 2 to my layout. The wires under Phase 1 are a true rat's nest, and I'm really, really trying to do better this time. The first step was to start the wiring while there was nothing but benchwork. This makes it so much easier to do it right. The control bus, track bus and even lighting buses for structures and street lights went down before I even put in the first pink foam.

I also did something that was electrically better, as well as just being neater and easier to trace: I bought a PSX-4 quad circuit breaker module from Tony's Trains, and divided up the layout. Again, it's a "looking ahead" thing, but, as we all know, "plan" comes between "dream" and "build."

 

Candy, and of course all tuned in here,

Thank-you for your compliments to and for all the participants here. Feel free to jump in anytime with a question or a comment. Good to have you participating here.

Some more thoughts from the Side Door Pullman:

Wiring is or can be tricky at best. The good news is: Anyone can wire up a model railroad.

Color coding: One of the gents I mentioned uses black and white wires all the way through his layout. Feeder wires, outgoing wires, sidings, stub end spurs, yard tracks all get the same color of wire. When I was under the table running the wires for him he was tagging them based on my descriptions. I will discuss this more in a moment but I want to focus on color coding.

I like color coding. You can do this a number of ways Ie., Using colored wired or using colored tape to tag the wires. I prefer the colored wire.

My son once asked me to keep a running log on how I built and wired the layout. Emphasis on wiring. You know, in case of my demise. It's a reality thing...we are all going to die we just don't know when, where, how and/or why. And I don't have time to worry about it...I have a railroad to build. I typically make up a log so I know what I did. He will be able to follow it and see what I've done. If for some unseen reason, I'm not able to complete my work, he'll be able to pick-up where I left off.

Pictures: Are another part of my documentation. He will have a file of pictures to consult with and commentary explaining the particulars.

I was able to find a bundled grouping of wires with virtually every color in the rainbow and a a few that aren't included. Mixes of three yellow stripes on a white background and etc. I think, you got the idea.

Getting back to when I was helping a friend wire his layout. I discovered that we weren't together in thought. Proper labeling and terminology needs to be used during the wiring process. A predefined usage of verbiage is important. For instance when I was under the train table pulling wires I used the railroad terminology, I know well. The two I was working with, as it turns out, had no idea what I was talking about. As I wasn't available when it came time to hook up the wires this caused the owner of the railroad more grief and work then needed, as he had to chime out each wire.

I use a code. Here are some examples., M1., means a designated block on the Main Line, M2., the block following it. B1., Barstow's track one. B2., Barstow's track 2, S1., Summit's track 1. S2., Summits track 2. To establish a set pattern, all tracks to the north side and east side of the layout whether it be sidings or yard tracks, are track 1.

Wiring Summary: The wiring on my layout is color coded. With a way and means to trace each wire from point A. to point B.. Using correct terminology Ie., A mainline block, siding or dead end spur track or hard wired track switch machine. Another example: "Turnouts" and the said expression aren't allowed on MY railroad. I'm building an American Model Railroad, so it's called a "SWITCH".

Edited add on: We can have the Switch versus Turnout discussion another time.

Back to the lunch table and all the fun. As I set there listening to these two distinguished model railroaders it dawned on me that one of the key's that enables us to discuss wiring or any other railroad subject is terminology. The telephone company has it's terminology, electrician's, electronics experts, cable company men all have specific acronyms and descriptive verbiage...often referred to as lingo. I'm sure you can continue this list of blue collar, hard working stiffs. They all have their own terminology and lingo or said ways of communicating. As does the rails.

I come from a family of rails (railroad employees) so I tend to use the descriptive wording heard in the family chatter and that best reflects the 1X1 foot scale. Not that it makes me right or any better then anyone else, not a chance. However, it can make it difficult when discussing railroads and applying said information to model railroading.

Here we are, throwing around various definitions and wondering who is really right...grin! Both of my good friends... have never experienced direct contact with or knowledge of the real railroads. They've never had the opportunity to hang around the rails, to talk and visit, inquire and ask questions. One remembers only the fun he had with his father and their model railroad. The other only what his mentor taught him. Typical of many who have been isolated or had no experience with the 1X1 foot scale.

This leaves me with the choice of either educating them or adopting their descriptive language. What would you do?

To summarize this terminology segment: Most (I won't say all) model railroaders use verbiage that is abstract to the lingo or language of the 1X1 foot scale rails. Now careful here, don't even go there...don't be telling me that the rails, "Don't know what they are talking about". You ain't seen me rant... until I hear such slander. They know! May I add better then we!

Here you go: You can throw this in my face. The definition of lingo: A form of language that is not recognized as standard...slang, vernacular, terminology. Yep, that ought to shut me up. Well, not quite. The thing to recognize here is that much of the lingo used by the rails, has been adopted as the standard.

Here's the gig, if you are going to model a railroad then why not use the lingo of the rails? Good idea...No/Yes?

Or continue as already adopted... the lingo of the model railroaders? Your choice!

Well, I'm about done out and I have a busy day ahead of me. I'm going to get my Thesaurus out and look up some synonyms, antonyms and idiomatic phrases and related words. I wonder where I put the one for mountain men? Maybe then I can explain railroading to them...grin!

Don't stop now, I will be back to catch up on your ideas. Did you know I can glean just as much from reading your input as you do from reading mine.

You do get something out of what I share here...yes/no?

Yep! It can happen.eek:

 

Rick, there's a few things I think you may be overlooking. Habits, pride, time and skill. Don't be surprised if those other two gents did put as much time into their trackwork as they did into their wiring. The catch is, they're likely three times as efficient at wiring as they are at trackwork.

Add in the issue of professional pride, compounded by the quite probable consideration that it just feels wrong to do what is, to them, a shoddy job. If they've spent a good part of their working lives repairing electrical stuff and working with wiring, you can be pretty damned sure that they're going to do their wiring in such a way as to make future repairs as painless as possible.

They are in a situation similar to that of a professional dancer. The dancer has to conciously force themselves to walk other than gracefully. For these fellows, it's natural to do a craftsman quality job on the wiring, anything else would be unnatural.

You'll find the same dynamic at work with other folks who come into the hobby. Artists tend to have fantastic backdrops and scenery, which they create with such ease (at least it seems that way to us) that occasionally we want to dropkick them into the next division yard out of envy! Carpenters and especially cabinetmakers whiz through benchwork, etc.

Add in the last consideration: one's high level of skill in one area doesn't necessarily transfer to other areas, even though it seems like it would. Trackwork is actually a lot more fiddly and challenging than it seems at first glance.

 

Biker Dad,

Love the thunder on the road.

I do agree with you.

I did threaten to send them both to a Rick's Seminar on Track Laying. Should of seen the look on their faces.

Not to worry they pay me back daily for that wise crack.

As I cuss and sware may way through their track work.

We have loads of fun together and most of the time we sit and laugh at the entanglement we get ourselves into.

 

Sheesh Rick. Please stop banging the turnout/switch drum
You've made your point but I'm not a convert and will still use switch for electrical gear and turnout for the track. In the 1x1 world the context will usually avoid confusion, but in model RR arenas it often doesn't. In my book clarity outranks using the correct terminology when they clash (which is very rarely, so I do generally try to use the 'right' words).

 

Switches, switches, switches.

Mike, and of course all tuned in...this isn't a P.M.,

As always I appreciate your input and kind words. What, what, what? You're tired? No it's me that's tired of beating this drum. I was hoping to save this discussion for another time and place B-U-T...since you brought it to our and my attention.

Seriously, this is a drum I will continue to rat-a-tat until I can no longer muster another beat. I've been beating this drum since model railroaders initiated the change back during the early 70's. I didn't agree with it then and surely don't today. Seems a Model Railroad wig wag posted an article advancing the idea based on the engineering manuals of the time. It wasn't based on railroad lingo. I won't labor this with you as the arguments can go back and forth in a never ending conflict. In a dilemma where both sides aren't far away from being right or wrong. Did I just say that?

I will reserve the right to continue to beat this drum and do so until this old worn out heart of mine quits beating. Then you can relax and know old Rick isn't out pounding the beat. I do hope the beat goes on..."And the beat goes on," (Who sang that?) I can only hope... someone else and/or perhaps many others will pick up the drum, hoist the colors and continue the advance.

I'd love to see us get back to calling an American Railroad Switch a.........oh, yeah, I just did. Turnouts are for the British, Aussie and Euro type railroads. It's all about railroad lingo, railroad lingo and did I say railroad lingo.

The confusion over an electrical component and/or track "Switch", doesn't float with me. I see it as a very poor excuse, lacking in the knowledge of the subject. To this day, listen to your scanner, the 1X1 foot scale still calls it a "Switch #1, Yes, Switch #2, No" and etc. Now, I better duck and cover. When the smoke clears take a second to listen...do you hear the drum?

Don't get me wrong. You can call them divider tracks, whatever the...well... you want to on your railroad or the club's railroad. I'm not the railroad lingo police... just a drummer.

It's your railroad and you make the rules.

On my railroad, as per stated, they are switches, switches, switches, repeat after me...cute:

Mike, I'm not sure how but I got your attention! You were obviously reading everything I pumped into it. I have to thank you for noticing. I'll take that as a compliment.

The key to enjoying TrainBoard is: To take what you want from here and leave the rest behind.

Me thinks we've already had that discussion.

It is what it is.

Da-rum-pum-pum-da-rat-a-tat. Hit it boys. Bring in the band on the next score. Trumpets I want to hear the trumpets. And for a really big drum sound I want to hear the bass drum and tympani. Boom, boom, rat-a-tat, rat-a-tat and yes the symbols as they clash, as do we titans of model railroading.
.

 

I like both, track laying including turnout building and wiring.
Much more than scenery, i.e. landscape. There I've problems.

Wolfgang

 

OOPS .....I'm an art school chick mg: