Why more AC4400CWs?

BC Rail King Feb 12, 2001

  1. BC Rail King

    BC Rail King E-Mail Bounces

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    Why is CPR actually ordering more AC4400CWs?? They have been nothing but trouble from the start. They have had fires, slip, need heavy maintance, burn fuel quickly, don't accelerate well, adn even more than that. They have been a nightmare. You sometimes see them sitting in a siding in the Fraser canyon cooling down or waiting for a miantance crew as a good old train of SD40-2s, or a nice new train of SD9043MACs pass by, actually moving the train! So my question, WHY did CPR actually want to buy more of them? It sounds really stupid to me! :rolleyes:

    Dane N.
    :cool: [​IMG]
     
  2. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    Obviously they like them a lot. Seems that UP and CSX do as well. Only BNSF (who has 3) and NS (who only has something like 10 AC units, and they were acquired from Conrail) don't buy these locomotives. I actually have not heard of a lot of problems with the AC44s or SD90/43s. The AC60s had problems (sorted out now) and the true SD90s continue to have problems. At present, GE seems to have a better rep with AC power than EMD does.
     
  3. DaveCN5710

    DaveCN5710 Profile Locked

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    Tell me about BC Rail King .

    I am a Engineer and I can't stand operating those units . CN just bought 100 of them :rolleyes: :mad: .

    SD70's and SD75I's are simply the best locomotives out there , I'm serious .
     
  4. Alan

    Alan Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    What exactly don't you like about them Dave? Is it the things Dane mentioned? Give us the details [​IMG] :D

    (You are our undercover man) :rolleyes:
     
  5. DaveCN5710

    DaveCN5710 Profile Locked

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    I have mentioned this before Alan and so has a other Engineer here .

    I'll try to explain it again . The one's on the CN are 4400HP , thats great .

    But here are my gripes .. They make train handling not as smooth IMO , going track speed down the main-line .

    1)They load to slow

    2)Respond slow

    3)Setting out or picking cars up

    Example : Your backing some cars into a track , setting out . Your using your air brakes , cars only , engine brakes bailed off , released . Power Braking , they don't power brake well . So your backing up and your cars are all bunched in .

    The conductor says "3 cars , 2 cars , 1 car , and then you stop . Then maybe the slack now runs out so that he can't get the pin to seperate your units from your cars .

    Keep in mind , I think the cars are bunched in so that he don't need the slack , so I center the reverser or move it to forward because if I do that , it will make it a little faster to respond when he tells me to go ahead .

    But no , he needs slack , now I got to slack backwards and this takes forever with these units :rolleyes:

    With General Motors units , SD75or75I's or any SD 40 , or GP38 , anything that is GM you get what you want , when you want it .

    Want power , you got it . none of this 30 seconds waiting for transition to go one way or the other :rolleyes:

    Makes train-handling easier my friend . Does that make sense Alan ?? [​IMG]

    [ 12 February 2001: Message edited by: Davecn5623 ]
     
  6. JPindar

    JPindar TrainBoard Member

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    Lets see another issue guys, GE's are coming a wee bit cheaper.

    And, GE can get em out of the plant a heck of alot faster, they are getting quantity not quality.

    Prolly same reason GM lost the VIA F59's to GE for them P42's! *spit*
     
  7. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    I've actually heard from many engineers that the GEs (any GE) are a bear to switch with because they load very slowly. But if you are using AC44s to switch, you're using them for the wrong thing. These units are designed for low-speed, high tractive effort drags (ie coal) where they can maintain a constant speed of 12 or 13 mph, but over many different grades - this is due to the AC traction motors.

    Try your SD70/75I in that and watch it stall it time and again. That's why down here on the US roads (UP, CSX, BNSF - NS doesn't like AC power) you see the AC44s and SD70MACs assigned almost exclusively to coal service.
     
  8. Chessie_SD50_8563

    Chessie_SD50_8563 Permanently dispatched

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    When the H*** is EMD going to start manufacturing that damn SD89MAC. That quite possibly could turn out to be the best locomotive out there if EMD can get there act together. All the SD90-H and AC6000 problems have been ironed out but the AC4400CW contiue to have problems I hear on CSX and CP (HI-AD trucks cracking, Traction Motor bearings going out, "Exploding Turbos") As for the Passenger units it appears that EMD nor GE can produce a passenger unit thats halfway decent, The P40 and P42 are having problems on Amtrak with there frames begaining to bend and EMD DE30AC are having truck problems (what the heck are those trucks called anyways? There not bloomburgs) Not to metion the fact that niether seem to be reliable enough to complete a trip without a failure of somekind. I dont think this promissed Idea of using 1 SD90-H/9043 or AC6000CW/4400CW on a train is going to happen soon because nether have the reliablity to do it. Sometimes I wounder if we had 3 or more manufactures or more than 6 class 1 out there if there would be more halfway decent units out there. What ever happened to Boise possibly producing the MK5000C again, at 180,000 LBS of STE that outdoes a AC6000CW (whos at 166,000 LBs of STE)and the MK5000 is a DC unit and 5000HP!!! :eek:

    [ 12 February 2001: Message edited by: Chessie_SD50_8563 ]
     
  9. Alan

    Alan Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks for the explanation, Dave [​IMG] I have heard about the 'load time' before, but was not sure what that meant. I assume the delay between telling it to do something and when it actually does so? :D

    But the thought of switching with big units like those is mind-boggling to this Brit!! :D

    [ 13 February 2001: Message edited by: Alan ]
     
  10. BC Rail King

    BC Rail King E-Mail Bounces

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Harron:
    Obviously they like them a lot. Seems that UP and CSX do as well. Only BNSF (who has 3) and NS (who only has something like 10 AC units, and they were acquired from Conrail) don't buy these locomotives. I actually have not heard of a lot of problems with the AC44s or SD90/43s. The AC60s had problems (sorted out now) and the true SD90s continue to have problems. At present, GE seems to have a better rep with AC power than EMD does.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I have a fealing the managment level likes the price, and 10 years of maintance deal they get with purchase. All the crews are still hvaing trouble with them. Southern Railway of British Columbia is the home shop were GE gets its warranty work done there. If you do see a foreign loco there, it is 9 out of 10 times a GE AC4400CW getting repair work done. Very rarely do you see other GE units there.

    Happy Railroading!

    Dane N. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Driver8

    Driver8 TrainBoard Member

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    Maybe because of the UP's 1000 SD70M order with GM. That facility only cranks out about 1-1.5 engines a day vs. GE which(I don't know for sure)can put out about 2-2.5 engines. Therefore CP can get there order faster with GE than GM. As well already having 265 AC4400 makes it easier for them to maintain by having a greater parts source, vs. the 61 SD90's.
     
  12. Daniel D

    Daniel D TrainBoard Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BC Rail King:
    Why is CPR actually ordering more AC4400CWs?? They have been nothing but trouble from the start. They have had fires, slip, need heavy maintance, burn fuel quickly, don't accelerate well, adn even more than that. They have been a nightmare. You sometimes see them sitting in a siding in the Fraser canyon cooling down or waiting for a miantance crew as a good old train of SD40-2s, or a nice new train of SD9043MACs pass by, actually moving the train! So my question, WHY did CPR actually want to buy more of them? It sounds really stupid to me! :rolleyes:

    Dane N.
    :cool: [​IMG]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, as many of us noticed, the CPR never bought a single GE untill now, and now they have about 300! :confused: I was always wondering why they went from SD40-2's to SD90's and AC4400's-Their fleet was all EMD and some Alco, they didn't buy new power because, for one reason, they didn't need it. They had SD40-2's, which where some of the best units they ever owned (you wouldn't buy 700 units that are plauged with problems, would you?) [​IMG] They didn't buy any 4-axle power because the GP60's where too big and heavy to do branchline work. They must of bought GE when they had a cheaper price on their units, and CP needed lots to replace the SD's. I think they should've bought some MK5000C's or more rebuilt SD40M-2's and more 90MAC's instead.

    (The new guy, Daniel D) :cool: :cool:
     
  13. Alan

    Alan Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hello Daniel [​IMG] A warm welcome to the Trainboard 'family' :D

    Have a look around the forums and enjoy [​IMG]
     
  14. Daniel D

    Daniel D TrainBoard Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alan:
    Hello Daniel [​IMG] A warm welcome to the Trainboard 'family' :D

    Have a look around the forums and enjoy [​IMG]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thanks, I'm already involved in other sites such as Railroad.net, Yahoo!Groups, Topica, and am going for more.


    Anyway, looks like CP likes the AC4400CW's more then the EMD MACs, that is probibly why they're buying more AC's instead of SD90's- less problems.
    We have to also remember that the SD90MAC was intended for 6000hp, and the AC4400CW 4400hp.

    Daniel D
     

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