I designed a track plan with xtrkcad. When I connect the track (Kato Unitrack) I'm not forcing any pieces or kinking them (I don't think, anyways). But the actual track pieces used don't match the xtrkcad plan. When I redraw the plan in xtrkcad with the actual track pieces used, I can't connect end points on the last connection on the mainline. Does the track have minor flaws that make the pieces not fit exactly right? Does xtrkcad just not exactly right? Or do I have kinks and misalignment that I'm not seeing. The trains run so-so. A few bumps here and there, but I think it's all from the rail tops not being flush, not the rails being out of alignment. Any help would be appreciated.
I have not used xtrkcad before but it seems like if you were able to fit actual pieces together without any binding, that the same would be doable on the software. Maybe the rdius in the program is not an exact match for your track? Either way, should prove to be an interesting answer.
Greetings! First off, I see you're from Lincoln, NE. I just moved to San Francisco from there about 8 months ago. Not quite relevant, but I felt compelled to share that But anyways, since I have moved out here to SF, I've been using unitrack for all my RR Needs. I used cadrail on my layout and the answer to your question above is "both". Cad programs will tell you how to lay everything "perfect", yet we all know that nothing is perfect, therefore plan to squeeze in various equalizer sections here and there. There was a thread on the boards a few weeks ago you might try out for more info... http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=90419 And for mis-aligned railheads , I was actually having that problem a few days ago. You just have to spend some time watching trains run and make note of the problem spots. Most of my problem spots were either kinked sections or un-stead grading. Sometimes even as the joined track lays naturally, it still isnt "perfectly" aligned. Here's another older thread about that too: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=91048 Good Luck! -Mark
Don't use Xtrkcad for Unitrack Sorry to sound like a broken record on this point, but don't use Xtrkcad for Unitrack layouts. Xtrkcad is a great program, but it underestimates the "wiggle room" in the Unijoiner connectors and, as such, greatly complicates the job of designing a Unitrack layout. There are all sorts of things that can actually be done with Unitrack (such as double- and even triple-track curves using R481 track) that are impossible to plot on Xtrkcad. Maybe it sounds old-fashioned, but you'll do much better by laying your track out on the living room floor and experimenting until you get what you want. --Bryan
I'm with Bryan 9 on this issue. You can design a layout anyway you wish but it won't give you the practicals. The front room or family room is a great place to start. Layout the design you want using Kato's bridge piers and etc. Is this about the layout we discussed on another thread? If so, have you tried flipping where the track crossover on the left side of the layout? You have a great design there but flawed perhaps because of the current arrangement. No Unitrack is going to come together smoothly on that grade. Just my two cents.
The connection distance and angle (what you call wiggle room) is adjustable in XTrkCad. You can change the tolerances to how tight or loose you prefer them.
True, but... That's correct - thanks for pointing this out. Xtrkcad's capabilities in this area aren't exactly obvious, particularly to new users. The reason I try to dissuade users from planning Unitrack layouts with Xtrkcad is that most are unfamiliar both with Xtrkcad and Unitrack. They too often conclude that a given layout design won't work when, in fact, it will. Note that the 'wiggle room' varies - for example, there's not much at all in R280, and precious little in R315 and R348. There's much more in R381, and R481 is wiggle-rich. I don't know whether you can assign different connection tolerances for different track sections. Even if that were possible, I think by the time you finished establishing the connection tolerances for each of these radii and programming them into XtrkCad, you could have laid out the track several times in your living room! Still, it would be a great contribution if somebody actually measured the connection tolerances empirically and shared the results. BTW, here's a pic that makes my point about Unitrack wiggility. Out of the box (so to speak), Xtrkcad would tell you that you couldn't possible do this: --Bryan
Please keep in mind that ANY design program is merely a guide. When you start laying track, pleae understand that you must NEVER force it to fit and that plans were made to be changed. It will save a lot of hair pulling and other manifestations of frustration.
I used the program for my Unitrack layout. I couldn't have layed it out on the floor first because I didn't have the pieces to do it. I liked that I could get a parts list automatically once I had the layout designed. I found that my layout went together smoothly and almost exactly as the program indicated. The only problem I had was in the yard, where I was using #4 switches in the engine service area. Xtrkcad doesn't "know" that you can't link several #4 switches together, you need to either modify them or use the special short connectors that come with the turnouts. So, I did need to play with my yard config a little on the actual layout. Everything else, however, went together exactly as the program said it should. I did increase the misalignment tolerance in the program a little to account for the wiggle room, but that didn't cause any problems with the actual track laying. Mike
Four places where you will find help with XTrkCad - the first two are forums where you can ask questions - the second two contain help files http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XTrkCad/ http://layoutparty.disisus.com/index.php ***************************************** http://ca.geocities.com/sillub@rogers.com/sillubtech/files/xtrkcad-html/xtrkcad.html http://templot.info/xtrkcad_help/ Hope they help
This goes for design programs used in architecture and construction, too. I don't use Unitrack, but it seems to me that after getting your basic layout on a CAD program it would be best to buy most of the track you think you need and then fiddle around with it and see if it fits. I use mostly Atlas track, and I don't hesitate to take a piece of flextrack and a saw and make my custom piece that will bring it all together when i have to, keeping in mind that I don't want and bad joints or kinks or wonky bits out of gauge to complicate running. Design is an iterative process, and designs that are all planned out before they are begun and then forced to work when they don't quite come out almost never work out. Adam
That's what's nice about Unitrack What I find most appealing about Unitrack is that it encourages an iterative design approach. It's possible to lay out quite a bit of track without permanently affixing it and then run trains. Inevitably, you find that you've made mistakes -- a siding is too short, switching operations interfere with the operations on the mainline, etc. --Bryan
First, thanks to all who have responded. I was wondering if the rail joiners can go bad. I know the metal joiner itself can be bent and that's not good, but what about the plastic part? Unless it's been destroyed by pliers or whatnot, shouldn't it stay in good shape? Or am I depending on that too much?
Joiners going bad? No. Electrical contact disappearing? Yes. Many people will either solder the joiners to the track or drop feeders to each track section (within reason).
I would be surprised to find any deviation in the geometry of Unitrack... it comes out of injection molded plastic tooling and there just isn't any room for the kinds of errors that would cause properly selected pieces from joining up as intended. You didn't mention if the track was all on one level. If you have grades in the plan all bets are off. The geometry of XTRK is designed on a measurement of the individual track sections. Introducing a grade will change that geometry....shortening the section in plan view. So any straights or curves on a grade will not match the same pieces on the level and will come out at different points. I haven't worked with XTRK since putting together some of the track planning elements for a catalog when I was at Kato five or more years ago, but seem to remember that that version of the program had some problems making a loop close...not from a geometric basis, but allowing two ends of the same track to join in the program. It was probably my inexperience with the program. Charlie Vlk
I agree on Unitrack. I would probably be using more of it if I had a bigger budget and if I wasn't working with people almost exclusively using Peco turnouts and Atlas Flextrack. I know that they can join but it's just easier if I stick with the group consensus. The only limitation, perhaps, on using Unitrack itself for design is a fear some people may have of buying too much of one kind of piece. I tend to only spot glue track down when I am trying something and, if the layout section doesn't work for some reason, I slide a putty knife under it and carefully pop it back up. Adam
I don't have any grades. I am in the process of following the track all around making sure of each joint (again for the fourth time). I am gluing it down every now and then, just to keep it from sliding around. It's on 2" thick foam insulation which is on a plywood table top, so it's very flat and even. Also, my electrical contact is fine. I can creep all my locomotives (steam and diesel) over all the track with no problem. I just get these bumps every now and then.
I find that when I get vertical bumps between sections of Unitrack that there are generally three reasons. First is that I have accidentally allowed the joiners to kink by not being careful enough when moving joined sections around. Electrically, the joiners still work, but they do allow some vertical movement if not handled carefully. Second is when my mounting surface is not as smooth as is needed. For instance, if I have a bump in my plaster under the track, it will cause a vertical misalignment in the track sections. Sometimes this self-corrects if I glue the sections down well using a weight to keep everything even. Finally, I have found a couple sections of track to just not be right. Whether it is the rail section or the way it is mounted to the plastic I haven't studied, but I have two sections of track that are just not right and trains would derail all the time until I replaced those sections. See if maybe any of those could be ocurring on your layout. Mike
I had a section of straight track causing this little bump problem. For some reason I got this curiosity to pull it out, turn it the other way and replace it. Funny part is it worked! :-/
