Whoa! Easy there guys... It's just paint. If there is too much; strip it. If there is not enough; add some. If it is just right; buy more of them, cuz that almost never happens. The colour of fuel tanks and tucks is easy to change. A brush will do the job just fine - the brush marks don't cause a problem because fuel tanks and trucks are generally pretty grimy and the brush marks just add to that. An exact match of paint does not matter either because the whole area should have at least a little bit of weathering to it. Apparently some Atlas handrails have no paint and others have way too much. I can understand some dissatisfaction with he later problem - handrails (particularly in N) are difficult to strip or replace. But it can be done.
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Scott Siebler: Kato was first in road specific variations with the C44-9W.<hr></blockquote> <font color="336633">And got the ditch lights wrong on the BNSF HII</font>
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Scott Siebler: These are not opinions of mine, I am stating FACTS!!!. <hr></blockquote> Exactly what I was doing in my post, Scott. As I have not yet corrected the models listed, I could take photographs and post them to prove the points. My intention was not to start a flame war, but merely to point out that as yet (and probably never will be) no manufacturer turns out perfect models. But surely we can hope for continued improvement, particularly in respect of correct paint colours, this is not rocket science I judge a model on my first impressions as I take it out of the box, and if it is immediately evident that the paint is wrong, that must be a negative thing. Good running qualities we tend to take for granted these days, so we have come a long way in the 'continued improvement' relatively recently, which is to be applauded. It must be admitted that some people are more critical than others (I have a rivet counter in my house) I have no problem with that. I am not over-critical, but I am quite happy to run recent Atlas offerings straight from the box, until I get time to add the extra details, but cannot bring myself to run models with blatantly obvious paint deficiencies, so they have to be modified before use. That is the difference. Rob sums it up very well: It's just paint. If there is too much; strip it. If there is not enough; add some. If it is just right; buy more of them, cuz that almost never happens After all, it is only a hobby
Aren't handrails on both Atlas and Kato oversized to begin with? I never measured them as I wasn't going to do anything to them if they were oversized. But I thought that despite the use of the new engineering plastics that the handrails were still over sized. Can anyone who has the means to do so measure both Atlas and Kato hand rails and report back their findings? Maybe BLMA might have an opportunity for a new product.
It's important to recognize how far we've come in the quality of N scale products over the past few years, despite a relatively unlucrative market in comparison to the larger scales Yes, we have the most posts in this forum, but by far more folks are into HO, etc. Handrails are thicker than the prototype, but they are straight and durable these days. Exact-scale plastic handrails that are durable and true? Impossible. But you can replace them with GMM stanchions and .008 brass wire (very thin and delicate!). Also, think about how far paint quality has come in relation to a few years back. Perfect? No. But pretty darn good for stock paint jobs. Nothing to get too upset about. I think we all have a new way to gauge what's really important the days. "Don't sweat the small stuff" seems to be appropriate here! Russ
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Scott Siebler: First, I think before I type. It is people like you that do not. You're the one who goes off on a tear all the time because you cant accept the truth!!! These are not opinions of mine, I am stating FACTS!!!. This battle is not me vs. everyone else. I have 3 other people on my side, and one is a very respected person on TB. I am not going to tell the other persons names because I have been instructed not to. But if you guys can't figure it out by now then you are really lost. Second, you say you dont own an Atlas model with painted handrails, then you have no right to comment on the issue one way or the other. You guys can go on and on about Kato and MT problems but you get all pissed off and shook up when somebody states the truth about Atlas. YOU GUYS KNOW THIS IS TRUE, JUST ADMIT TO IT AND THERE WONT BE ANYMORE OF THIS 'FLAME WAR' [ 18 October 2001: Message edited by: Scott Siebler ]<hr></blockquote> You're cracking me up, Scott. You're passing opinion off as fact , and yes, I can see for myself how locomotives look. FYI , I started in N scale in the mid-1970s when all the paint jobs were put on with a 3-inch brush, but it didn't matter, because the locomotives were all junk (with the possible exception of Minitrix), with telephone pole-sized handrails. The crap that passed as N scale back then made me go to HO, and over the years I learned to overcome the flaws and imperfections in HO rolling stock and motive power. Now back in N scale, I'm relearning, but I'm having FUN at this. The vastly improved quality in N scale impresses the hell out of me. As for not having a right to debate the quality of Atlas handrails, wrong again. I have a hobby shop nearby, where I get all my N scale goodies. The owner has a wide array of Atlas, Kato, Life-Like and Minitrix engines (with a few Bachman Spectrums tossed in for good measure). On a few of the Atlas locomotives I've seen painted handrails, but for my railroad (running GP7s, GP9s and the like) the locomotives I have are paint-free on the handrails. I repeat, paint-free. Anyway, if I can't get undecorated (which ain't easy), I'm gonna strip the paint off and repaint in Frisco and a couple of other Midwestern fallen flags, so perhaps I don't have such a heartfelt emotional feeling about this issue. Now, since you're not a moderator or an administrator, you can toss out the "you don't have a right to" business. Since I've had the opportunity to observe, test-run, and actually purchase Atlas engines, I DO have the right to comment, and I will. This is an open forum for comments & opinions from ALL, I repeat ALL, interested parties. Now, as an aside, what would YOU suggest as an alternative to painting N scale handrails? If you have an idea, please speak up. Offering an alternative is vastly better to flying off the handle. Now, is Atlas perfect? No. Is Kato perfect? No. Is LL perfect? No. Is the world perfect? No. I and others have made comments about how to deal with the paint jobs. And, someone mentioned possible replacements for the handrails (hmm, wonder if BLMA, JnJ, or even AC Models[listen up, Alan!! ] could work on this if they already haven't?) 1. Don't sweat the small stuff. 2. It's ALL small stuff. later........
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by StickyMonk: <font color="336633">And got the ditch lights wrong on the BNSF HII</font><hr></blockquote> Atlas got headlight placement wrong on the BNSF B23-7s.
There seems to be confusion about why some Atlas locos have painted handrails and some don't. I thought I would add that only the newer Atlas locomotives have painted handrails. Old models, like the GP9 and the old GP7 do not have painted handrails. The newer models do, if applicable Take a look at the photos of all the Atlas locos at a site like www.buynscale.com that still has some of the old atlas releases and you will see that the older releases have no handrail paint. I have seen the painted handrails on the a bunch of Atlas locos at a train show, and yes a few had some excessive paint, but most were fine. Also, Harron, thanks for your reply. The one thing that really bugs me about the Kato SD9043MAC I have is that the inner step well has so little paint that you can definatly see the yellow plastic through, the way I see it is if these models are mass produced and they wont be perfect in every way [ 18 October 2001: Message edited by: sd9043mac ]</p>
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Alan: Exactly what I was doing in my post, Scott. As I have not yet corrected the models listed, I could take photographs and post them to prove the points. My intention was not to start a flame war, but merely to point out that as yet (and probably never will be) no manufacturer turns out perfect models. But surely we can hope for continued improvement, particularly in respect of correct paint colours, this is not rocket science <hr></blockquote> I know the problems with these Kato models and you are stating facts. I respect you for that and my postings do not dispute that. What I am countering is people like friscobob who get quality and accuracy confused.
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by friscobob: You're passing opinion off as fact Now, as an aside, what would YOU suggest as an alternative to painting N scale handrails? If you have an idea, please speak up. Offering an alternative is vastly better to flying off the handle. <hr></blockquote> First, I am stating fact. The white paint on the endrails is globbed on, you can see it clearly on the new run SD60s. Second, I already gave my alternative to this issue. LEAVE THE HANDRAILS UNPAINTED AND LET THE MODELER DO IT.
Well, since I don't have SD60s, nor am I planning to buy any, this is not an issue. There were no SD60s in the 1975-1980 time frame, and they couldn't handle the light-rail line I'm running on anyway. However, you and I can agree on one thing- leave the handrails unpainted. What say you and several others Email Atlas about this? I'd even be willing to do this to help the effort.
Apparently the Atlas Geeps I have are from an earlier run- they ARE made in China, and the wheelbase setting is proper, but the handrails are paint-free. Those, Scott, are what I own. I went back & looked at my Atlas catalog, and yes, the handrails are painted. Oh well, strip it if it's a problem. And if I buy any more Geeps, and they're painted wrong, the offending paint comes off- I'm not stuck on running stock paint schemes anyway. As it is, I'm looking at getting some LL Fa1/FB1s in Frisco colors, and FYI, they look and run super. And for eighty bucks vs, the retail price of $120, ya can't beat the price. I thought about putting down Webster's meaning of the words quality and accuracy, but I thought nahhhhhh, I said no flames. It's only a hobby.......
I was intrigued by the "thick paint" comments on Atlas step handrails, so I just popped into the railroad room and had a look. Atlas ATSF B23-7, handrails not painted, as they are self coloured plastic. Atlas UP B23-7, step handrails painted white, and I can discern no difference in the thickness of the rails, so the paint MUST be very thin. Also the white step edges are VERY cleanly done. Like someone has already said, this sort of detail is light years ahead of what was available just a few years ago. So I for one am very happy with the current state of ready-to-run models. So, Bob, Alan Curtis Models will definitely not be making replacement handrails
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Alan: I was intrigued by the "thick paint" comments on Atlas step handrails, so I just popped into the railroad room and had a look. Atlas ATSF B23-7, handrails not painted, as they are self coloured plastic. Atlas UP B23-7, step handrails painted white, and I can discern no difference in the thickness of the rails, so the paint MUST be very thin. Also the white step edges are VERY cleanly done. Like someone has already said, this sort of detail is light years ahead of what was available just a few years ago. So I for one am very happy with the current state of ready-to-run models. So, Bob, Alan Curtis Models will definitely not be making replacement handrails <hr></blockquote> Oh well, it was worth a try..... Everything you've stated is exactly the reason I'm happy to be back in N scale! I agree, the unpainted handrails are really nice. Wonder if it's a case of "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"...... Highball, y'all!
Scott, as the Locomotive Expert here, will you tell me what the correct diameter of the handrails are on the real engines of today? I am not sure it is practical for a manufacturer to injection mold a truely scale sized handrail. My guess is that they probably use some sort of piano wire to make the wire ones, but even then to paint them in assembly line production the kind of paint might make a fairly thick coating. Maybe there is a better paint? Would the scale sized plastic hand rails break off easily? What is your knowledge on this? About the lettering being thick; maybe they silk screen the lettering, where other manufacturers use a process of transfer painting like we do to letter IC's for PCB's. Silk screen paint is thick in order to work at all, so usually does leave a thickness you can feel, and is cheap. I understand some of the China made stuff is dipped, to paint the base color, which would indeed make it a very thick coating more like on an automobile. What do you feel would be the best method to use to apply the paint, and be able to get a really fine paint job? You may be the only real expert we have here, so your knowledge would be most welcome to us all. OK?
Anyone have problems with the factory paint comming off the handrails?I am not.I hate repainting the handrails that I have done....
scott and everbody all i have to say is BACHMANN RULES. i mean where else can you get a lifetime warranty even though the life of the engine is usually 6 months, and they have good paint jobs , especially the chrome santa fe f-9's of a few years back. and scott kato messed up the road specific details on the dash 9 also, the ns should have high numberboards too not noseboards and the ditchlights were wrong in placement and also none on the longhood end! oh well i guess i will have to do it all myself like i have done the past umteen years when i didn't like something!
