While some may not find their vehicles all that great... I certainly have been pleased with the products they've provided over the past 10 years. Unfortunately they have slowed down to nearly a snails pace not only on their previously announce items... but even on announcements of new products. The much anticipated Dodge Coronet has not been discussed on their website since originally being announced about 2 yrs ago. I'm disappointed that they did not announce a PD4103 Intercity Busses in N scale... and now they've announced a PD4501 Scenic Cruiser in HO... but again not in N scale! If we want these... we MUST let them know that we want them. At least the survey results were published: http://www.classicmetalworks.com/gpEasy/
They indicated there was a licensing issue with the 1956 Dodge. Hopefully the project will go forward eventually. They expressed disappointment in sales of their N scale products - SO BUY STUFF!
I have had a lot of N scale modelers tell me they will not buy CMW vehicles because of the way they are packaged. They refuse to buy a package with two models of the same color. What they do not understand is that it costs just as much to produce an N scale model as it does an HO scale model. Therefore, the only way CMW can keep the unit cost of the N scale models below the unit cost of the HO scale models is going the two pack route. Many have suggested CMW go back to their original business model, and release the N scale two packs with two different colors of vehicle in each two pack. This would add an extra step (and cost) to the packaging process, which would likely raise the unit cost of the N scale model to approximately equal that of the HO scale model. Also, the market for HO scale vehicles is significantly greater than the market for N scale vehicles, so CMW will never realize the same return on investment on their N scale models as they do on their HO scale models. Hopefully, if it proves possible to produce the models in the U.S. and sell them as kits, we may see some additional N scale models, provided N scale modelers take Mike's advice and BY THE STUFF!Carter
I tried to make paragraphs in the previous post so it would be easier to read, but once submitted, all of the extra hard returns disappear.
Thanks for your replies. I had heard of a licensing issue now that Chrysler has a different owner... but... I just don't know how much that has to do with it. I believe more strongly the issue has to do with slow sales on N scale items... because there doesn't seem to be an issue with HO releases and other die-cast models they are doing. Obviously... if there isn't enough money being generated by N scale sales... profits would suffer... and CMW is in the 'business' to make money. Now... I just don't know if the sales of HO models are significantly higher because HO is not only a good size for model railroaders... but also for die-cast collectors in general... whereas... N scale is strictly model railroaders. We know that as a group (model railroaders in general) that HO modelers are by far outnumbering N modelers... so there is a large pool of potential buyers of 1 car packs of HO models. But those HO 1 packs equates to double the price of the N scale 2 packs. So... what would it take for CMW to make the N scale 2 packs... into 1 packs and adjust the price slightly downward... OR... as stated before make two different colors in the 2 packs with a slightly adjusted price upward? As for the busses... I'd gladly buy one packs of the busses... I really don't absolutely have to have 2 of each... and they could make mulitple single pack of busses with different routes like Wheels of Time did with their busses.
Go buy the stuff, and trade with a buddy if you don't like two of the same color.... The only way we get more product is if we buy existing product...
A few of our club members either split a package, or they each buy a package and trade around, like the old days with Hot Wheels cars. I would love to purchase more of their product. I haven't seen the results of the poll, but more modern vehicles would garner more of my modelling dollars.
Two cars of the same color really don't bother me, I just need to put them a few feet apart on the layout. But yes, I'd rather they came in two different colors in each package.
Just starting in the hobby I want to try to help as many companies that produce n-scale as possible but this comment right here is one of the big reasons I don't buy from many of those companies. We don't all model the 50s and 60s (though I do realize and acknowledge that many do because that is when they were growing up).
I agree we need more variety for N scale vehicles. I also agree that we all need vehicles for the 60's and 70's. I after all model the 67 to 69 time frame and you can only have so many 50's vehicles on it. I think it would be great if someone came out with a mid 60's pickup. But you have to admit that CMW 2 packs are just like atlas trucks and pickups and explorers. Two to a pack and same color. I had one friend that when a batch of vehicles came we each bought different colors and then swapped. The one point that I do not like is the comments from several manufactures that I have talked with is If you want new stuff you need to buy the stuff already out there first. I agree that we need to support the manufactures, but hey you can not have 90's items on a 60's layout. As economy get tighter I can not buy a lot of items that I can not use....So If the manufacture wants to get my dollars he is going to have to produce items that I can use. That is where the polls I think would be invaluable. Thanks for letting me put in my two cents Larry
I think the main reason most people model the '50s is because they can plausibly use steam and diesel at the same time. I model '54. Born in '62. I was always interested in railroads, but don't have any vibrant memories of railroads from that era. It's the steam. Jim
Bill Giacci of CMW Holdings Ltd. posted this on the 87scalecars Yahoo group last August: "Thanks for your interest. Unfortunately, the 56 Dodge has been put on indefinite "hold." This is due to licensing problems involving Chrysler. We are not sure why. We have moved on to other projects in the meantime. Thanks" And, here is what Bill Cawthon posted on the N Scale Vehicle Association's Yahoo Group as a follow up to Bill Giacci's statement about the 56 Dodge: "Non-disclosure agreements prevent Bill Giacci from commenting. However, since MY NDAs have all lapsed, I am not restricted from discussing the situation. The fact is that Chrysler Group's licensing agencies have made some changes and it's now to the point where HO and N replicas of Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep and Ram vehicles aren't financially practical, even if you can get the licenses. There's just not enough volume to recapture the amount that would have to be spent. Bill C." As for more 1960s automobiles, Atlas has one in development of a very popular car, that hopefully will be officially announced soon. Who knows, they could even announce it at Springfield this weekend! And as for modeling eras, N scale modelers were split fairly evenly from transistion era to present according to the CMW poll. Only the HO modelers favored the transition era. But, it is my understanding that Bill and Joe Giacci's N scale layout is set in the transition era. Carter (And it even looks like the paragraphs are going to stay in place this time around!)
Thank-you Carter for the additional information. Unfortunately... the delay to the Coronet is saddening. I really would have like that car to have been produced before the Meadowbrook... which I've purchased one of each thusfar. I have just about all of the CMW vehicles produced... sometimes many of the same ones. I feel I've done my part buying them... but... I fully understand that modelers from the more modern eras would be reluctant to buy the transition era cars other than for perhaps a used car lot, junkyard or museum. By the same token I would not buy the cars after 1970 because my ending timeframe is 1969... and if I bought them it would be illogical (timewarp stuff ). This still doesn't address the 1950's- to 1970's era PD-4103 and PD-4501 busses. I would imagine that their isn't a licensing problem with them... so... is it the feeling N scalers would shun these products as well?
CMW has had a bad few years from what I gather. Several of their projects had to be scrapped, like the 56 Dodge and the 78 Impala in N (which only made one run before GM imposed the choke box policy). Recently CMW has done surveys to establish what we want, and offered ideas such as introducing knock-down kits for modelers to build, much like MTL and MDC did in the 80's. I think they may also be getting the squeeze from China, as all small importers seem to be victim of lately. Thats a lot to overcome. I think CMW should focus on a few things: 1. Refine their new tooling and make a premium product. A bus with accurate wheel hubs will sell better than a but on stilts. 2. Introduce the kits ASAP. Lots of modelers would like a large asortment of cheap cars. 3. Produce modern day cars. No one has done a Lincoln or Murcury for example. Licensing for SAAB, Pontiac, Saturn and Olds may be negoshiable at a lower price, especially Olds which did not exist after the choke box policy. 4. Produce something truly collectable as a premium line. Think special trucks in limmited numbers - U-Haul, Various Fire and Police departments, etc. Make them in limmited quantities and bonus points for the Made in the USA sticker. 5. Get busy with modern trucking. Stoughton 53' sheet/post trailers, container chassis, tackle brand new containers from Wabash, Hyundai etc. 6. Make something show stopping... a car carrier with etched parts, a milk/corn syurip trailer with a quality mirror finish, modern gas trailers. 7. Look into a construction line of vehicles. Licensing Case/New Holland, and especially Volvo are easier than GM or Chrysler. How about Komatsu? They already license to a ton of model makers in Japan. Be THAT company that innovates. Find holes in the product lines that no one even thought about.
I also have examples of almost everything CMW has produced, which does not make much sense for someone whose modeling era is the 21st Century. The majority of them have become part of my "off layout" collection, which is also part of my display for the N scale conventions. And, I don't believe people should feel forced to buy what they cannot use or do not want. Not making an N scale version of the PD 4501 came as a bit of a surprise to me as well. However, Walthers financed the development of the TDH 3610, and obviously did not step up to do the same for the PD 4501. My guess is that CMW could only afford to tool the HO scale model at this time. As for the PD 4103, CMW received a significant amount of technical assistance from an avid HO scale vehicle modeler. The tooling costs were enormous in that the first set of dies had to be scrapped. It is my understanding that you pay for the factory's time, not by the amount of product produced. If an N scale version ever looks financially feasible, I am certain CMW would consider producing it. This also explains why the N scale models are often not as accurate as the HO scale counterparts. CMW did not want to release the "high water" version of the TDH 3610, but the budget for the project did not allow for any additional changes to the tooling. At least correcting the ride height for the TDH 3610 is something most modelers should be able to do rather easily. Besides the 1960s car Atlas has in development, other 1960s vintage vehicles are on the way. Lemke MiNis will be offering the Fastback and Squareback versions of the VW 1600. The Notchback sedan is also being produced, but those were never officially imported by Volkswagen of America. Also, a lot of the 1:150 Tomytec cars can be used as stand-ins for 1960s North American vehicles. However, with the Tomytec method of packaging, you will get a lot of stuff you probably cannot use, except for the wheels, which can be used to upgrade the old Bachmann cars. Carter
The 1960's car that Atlas has in development....'65 Mustang perhaps?? And in regards to the 'same color' issue, that's how Atlas packages their vehicles also, so I'm not sure I understand why it's an issue for folks buying CMW and not Atlas?
Dave, Nope, the '65 Mustang is already available in HO scale from at least two different manufacturers. The car that Altas is working on has not yet been done in either scale, but there were nearly 175,000 copies of most common body style. :zip: Atlas also gets complaints about the two-packs. Paul has stated (probably tongue-in-cheek) that he would just as soon package them with random colors (only one SKU) but distributors prefer the present system. Carter
Okay... so... lets start the guessing game... Ford Fairlanes were done by CMW... The Mustangs were done in N scale by Alloy Forms years ago and by Road Apples/Lineside Models... Lineside also did the mid 1960s Galaxie 500 and T-birds. The only other 'major' 1960's car NOT done by any manufacturer in either N or HO is the Ford Falcon. Unless... we are also to include the Mercury and Lincoln brands; of which, 1960's versions are NON-existant in N scale (Monteray, Marauder, Cougar, Meteor, Comet, Continental... etc).
Although the line included an inaccurate representation of a Jeep, the only N-Scale automobile that Alloy Forms ever produced was a 1957 Chevy Bel-Air Coupe. It was NJ International (in the 1990s, when the firm was still located in Hicksville, New York) that released the 1965 Mustang kits (Marks Model produced products in cardboard header topped plastic bags bearing stock numbers 1391 [for the coupe] and 1392 [for the convertible]).
Did any of you guys get in on the 1954 F-350s that they were blowing out at only 5 dollars for a pack of 2? I got them in UP,SF & unlettered plus free shipping on 25.00 orders. It was posted on n scale yard sale. I say it was a super deal, just hope they are not being stuck with a lot of inventory/bad sales. I have tons of there stuff on my layouts.
