I'm not the moderator here, but as one of the few Frisco fanatics on Trainboard, I thought I'd get things stirred up here (in a good way) Let's assume for a minute that the BN-Frisco merger never took place sorry Matt , but just play along here), and that Frisco was still in business (Assuming they could have weathered the nasty Midwestern floods in 1993). What diesels do you think the Frisco would be running? Would they still ahve the O/W paint scheme, or would you see a reincarnation of the "racehorse" passenger colors on some of the newer power?
Before going any further, let me just savor this particular point for a while. Charlie</font>[/QUOTE]
Before going any further, let me just savor this particular point for a while. Charlie</font>[/QUOTE]I was thinking of you when I wrote that, Charlie I thought you'd like that.
OK, from the ridiculous to the sublime : First, the disposals: Goodbye, U25Bs and most (if not all) the U30Bs Adios, GP35s See ya, SD45s (unless they came back rebuilt to SD40-2 specs) Now, the additions: More GP40-2s, since they were well- used on the fast freights (most notably 32 and 33, and to some extent the QLA) A sampling of GP60s More SD40-2s to handle coal traffic from Wyoming B40-8s to replace the U30Bs, and supplement the B30-7s A sampling of SD60s and C40Ws To be honest, I'm rather surprised the proposed ATSF-Frisco merger never came to be, since it would give Santa Fe something it always wanted- its own route to St. Louis. It would also give access to Memphis, TN and Birmingham, AL, and interchange with NS and CSX at both gatweays, not to mention an almost-transcon route for its pig & stack trains. The Tulsa-Avard Frisco route woulda been beefed up to accept signaling, thus increasing trains speeds, and the Avard route would have seen pig & stack trains (much as it is now from BN-ATSF runthroughs -most notably JB Hunt pig trains- and the most recent Beansniff merger). I will say this, since BNSF, the Afton Sub thru Miami, OK has gotten busier, and the former Cherokee Sub has become an intermodal raceway thru Afton.
Hmmmm... I like playing the fantasy game with the SLSF (I'm sure some of you know this!) I'm very tempted to paint a few modern diesels up as Frisco on my N-Scale stuff. Here are some schemes [see below] to play around with if the SLSF were riding the rails today... I'm still partial to the red/white "modified." Not sure if I have the right blue for the Meteor scheme, I only have one color reference pic and it's a painting. Anywho, enjoy! -Mike [ 08. August 2002, 06:33: Message edited by: SLSF Freak ]
Presuming that the SD45's were leased rather than owned then they would have gone at the same time that BN retired them, 84 or 85, thereabouts, so possibly you would be talking a batch of SD50's to replace, or a mix of SD50 and GP50's? The GE alternative then would be C36-7 or B30-7 presumably? Do you have a "final" SLSF roster, with build dates and wether the loco's were owned or leased? I like doing these things
I don't have lease/ownership information, but here is the roster from Charles W. McDonald's Diesel Locomotive Rosters: <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=50%><tr><td>Road Nos.</td><td>Model</td><td>Date</td></tr><tr><td>10</td><td>SW1</td><td>1941</td></tr><tr><td>100-124</td><td>GP15-1</td><td>1977</td></tr><tr><td>250-265</td><td >NW2</td><td>1948-1949</td></tr><tr><td>296-299</td><td>SD38-2</td><td>1979</td></tr><tr><td>300-304</td><td>SW7</td><td>1952</td></tr><tr><td>305-314</td><td>SW9</td><td>1952</td> </tr><tr><td>315-360</td><td >SW1500</td><td>1968-1973</td></tr><tr><td>361-365</td><td>MP15DC</td><td>1975</td></tr><tr><td>400-478</td><td>GP38-2</td><td>1973-1976</td></tr><tr><td>633-650, 652-662</td><td valign=bottom>GP38AC</td><td valign=bottom>1971</td></tr><tr><td>663-673, 675-699</td><td valign=bottom>GP38-2</td><td valign=bottom>1972</td></tr><tr><td>700-732</td><td>GP35</td><td>1964-1965</td></tr><tr><td>750-774</td><td>GP40-2</td><td>1979</td></tr><tr><td>790-799</td><td>GP50</td><td>1980</ td></tr><tr><td>808-831</td><td>U25B</td><td>1963-1966</td></tr><tr><td>832-855, 857-862</td><td valign=bottom>U30B</td><td valign=bottom>1968-1975</td></tr><tr><td>863-870</td><td>B30-7</td><td>1977</td></tr><tr><td>900-908, 910-925, 927-948</td><td valign=bottom>SD45</td><td valign=bottom>1967-1969</td></tr><tr><td>950-957</td><td>SD40-2</td><td>1978</td></tr></table> Of the GP50's, only 791 was delivered in Frisco colors. The others were delivered in Cascade Green and Black. Dwight [ 01. August 2002, 19:00: Message edited by: Dwightman ]
Mike, Nice paint jobs! On the blue/white one, the blue should be darker (midnight blue, almost), but what you have ain't bad! Personally, I'm partial to the "Racehorse" passenger scheme (or Meteor, if you will) on any SD70MACs. Definitely an improvement over the green/cream mess BN came up with (even the Tijuana Taxi paint job BNSF calls Heritage II is an improvement) (oh man, I can hear them BN/BNSF folks now... )
Well from my experience working in Tulsa at the rdhouse at the time of the merger, I would bet SLSF would have stuck to EMD products gp 50 maybe sd-50. probably a few more gp-40's and probably a few GE's just to try some of their engines and keep Erie happy. GE's just never really were liked by the crews. As far as paint schemes give me tuscan orange and creme any time!
While I can't argue with the purchase of four-motor EMDs, I wonder just how many GEs would have graced the tracks.....did SLSF management ever listen to the crews & mechanical departments much when purchasing locomotives, or were they easily wooed by salesmen? BTW, I've heard similar gripes from friends who were BN employees who hated the LMX (sharknose) diesels (those B39-8s), saying they ran rough. It would also be interesting to see if a small fleet of GP60s and/or B40-8s could handle the hogback profiles of the mainlines running the fast freights. I still think the racehorse scheme would look nice, but perhaps on a small fleet of SD70MACs for coal train service. Only other change I'd make to the O/W scheme would be to put the coonskin on the nose of the diesels, maybe a little larger than what a few diesels got.
I think I'm gonna stick to EMD's (GP60's and SD70MACs) in my fantasy as well. Added the Black/Yellow to the mix, that looks pretty good too!! Coonskin on the nose is definitely a must if we go for the [Tuscan or Mandarine] [Orange or Red] / [Cream or White] or whatever it was?! Revisions/Additions:
I vote number 2 (the black/yellow one)! Wonder what it would look like with a solid yellow nose.......... still like number 3 (the racehorse) as well
What was the Frisco's traffic mix like in '80, and how would it have changed since? I know it has a reputation for fast automotive trains and intermodal through running from the mid-south on to the Santa Fe, and as it has a big fleet of 4 axle power anyhow i'm sure it wouldn't think twice about continuing that... What's it's requirement for 6 axle power? Did it have a bunch of coal trains or heavy unit trains that would demand that sort of power? In terms of paint schemes, I could see the orange/white continuing up to the first safety cabs, with a heritage scheme being implemented on them. I like the black and yellow, but my guess is that would be regarded as too dull and old fashioned looking, so my money would be on a modified racehorse red. My guess is, that because the SD45's were used on fast freight as well, then good proportion of their replacements would be 4 axle, and split about 70/30 between EMD and GE. (also inflienced by run through's from the ATSF who also were buying lots of 4 axle power at that time) They might just have held off the change enough for some of the EMD's to be GP60's, (BN got rid of most between 84 and 86, which is across the change from 50 to 60 series EMD's) the GE's would be B39-8's. My suggestion is that the next batch after that would be split the other way (70/30 to GE) after problems with the 50 series fleet, so figure B40-8 and C40-8's with a few SD/GP60's. Depending on how much the Santa Fe was influencing, the late 80's or very early 90's could see a couple of orders with safety cabs. I think a small batch of B40-8W's would be a fairly logical addition. The Santa Fe's policy changed (along with a few other roads) at about this time when they twigged that 6 axle power could run just as fast as 4 axle power. Expect a batch of C44-9W's in the early 90's. Maybe EMD would make a comeback with the 70 series in the mid 90's...
Charlie, I'd love to do that - in fact that was one of the reasons I bought MS Train Sim was because I believed I would eventually be able to build a fleet. I think I jumped the gun early on and may have tried too soon (just a few weeks after the program was released), but I just couldn't figure out how folks were making their own "skins". I downloaded sample files, read the instructions and tried but it just didn't work for me. Maybe I'll try again - if anyone out there knows how, I'd be glad to forward the full sized versions of these or work on the artwork for them to do it. -Mike [ 09. August 2002, 06:21: Message edited by: SLSF Freak ]
Mike- Gotta ask the question- where did you get that Frisco gif in your signature? It looks great! L-shaped window and all!
I was tooling around www.train-sim.com wayyyy back when I initially thought about this - of course it was all so new there wasn't a whole lot of material to go on. Just revisited it - there is some real talent out there! what with the new locos, improved textures and weathering and a lot more FRISCO stuff!! (I think the first time I went in there was like one boxcar decorated in SLSF) I'll take a look at it and see if this is something I can do. As for the little SD45 Gif in my sig block, it originated as George Elwood's line drawing on paintshop.railfan.net - I added some details and adjusted a few, painted, then wrote him for permission to use it and he said "Go for it!" so here it is! -Mike [ 10. August 2002, 18:54: Message edited by: SLSF Freak ]
