Hi all ... Never posted in this forum here but quite often in N scale. I had a layout which I will be tearing up to replace by a point to point layout. Now I don't want this one to continue the tradition of the last one (appropriately named the Unreliable and Recycled RR) but am looking for Quality running. I have quite a bit of pretty new Code 80 N scale flextrack, and would like to incorporate it in the new layout (no ballasting so will come up easy). I am not investing in DCC, and am not switching scales, so I want to use my existing fleet of N scale locomotives and rolling stock. I have a Scratchbuilt flour mill that I want to incorporate also. The space is approximately 8 feet (6 inches Wide) by 9 or 10 feet (12 inches Wide) These are the limitations in that space. I can't go wider, and the 6 inch wide shelf will not have a backdrop as it is a half wall. So what would you do? If there is info missing please let me know! Thanks in advance! Cheers Adam
Plan of space Thought this would help a little ... Attached a "plan" of the space I have available ...
What is the footprint of the milling facility you built? That would help in planning some. Also I see your picture there has different dimensions than what you laid out in your original post... which are the true ones? How about a little more on how you'd like to operate? I can plan a large industrial/city-type scene with many tracks or more of a smaller point-to-point branchline that starts at a yard/off the mainline and ends at the flour mill. Just looking for a feel for what you'd like.
The dimensions in the plan are the correct ones. As for the mill it has a footprint of 17 inches wide by 8 inches deep. I would like to incorporate trees and have a semi rural appeal to the layout. I find urban sprawl to be unappealing. I'm really looking for a slow paced setting where there are one or at the most two trains working. Hope that helps! And thanks again for helping out! Cheers Adam
Well here are a couple plans for you to look at. Both have the mill on the right-hand side due to the 8" depth. They also have a small yard for your local to originate/stage at, and at least one other spur where you could put another customer. The rest would be left to scenery. I wasn't sure which side of the track you want the mill on (wall side or aisle side). The first plan meanders a bit, but has an "S" curve in it and does not allow for a run-around move at the mill - which would be to the wall side. Operationally you could run down light engine and pull the outbound cars to the yard, then shove loads down to the mill. The mill has spots for 6-7 cars. The second plan follows the edge of the layout, but has a runaround at the mill (which would be to the aisle side). There are still 6-7 car spots, but this time the "mainline" stays as such. You would still run light to pull cars out, but the spotting is more interesting. You pull the cars down and start into the runaround, take the first 3 cars into the runaround and leave room for your engine below the bottom switch, you then run around these cars and shove them to the bottom of the siding. Then you drag the rest of the cars onto the runaround, run around them, and shove them together with the first cut, making a solid cut for when you pull.
Thanks for the help Harron! Really appreciate it. Wasn't expecting any answers to be honest so thank you for taking the time to design a plan and all that!
Hi there. Let me input my humble propositions. Simply put, its all guess work until we get to know the specifics of the mill. I took the liberty to assume it's a 'drive-in' thing
Thanks Virgule for your post! Sorry, haven't gotten around to replying, was sick, and hospitalized, so I am recovering right now. I will try to post dimensions of the Mill's footprint. Cheers Adam
Ok Well finally got around to measuring the mill after digging it out from its hiding place. It's footprint is 18 inches wide by 9 inches deep. That's it's present configuration. Presently the loading/unloading tracks are in the front, but this can be moved. I will be prearing the new layout area soon. Thought I'd include the number of switches I will have, 3 number 6 rights (Peco) and three number six lefts (Peco). If this isn't enough, then I can always order a few more from my source hehe. Hope this helps! Cheers! Adam
First off I hope everything is ok with your health. Layout design... I always look at pictures and track plans from old magazines that I like. I try to create a scrap book of ideas with sketches. The next step is to get your track and just play with track arrangements on your layout surface by actually setting switches ni place and then putting structures, a loco and some cars on run arounds and sidings to get an idea of what will fit and look good. Often with a point to point shelf layout ,corners get wasted. You might have the trailing end of a stub yard in the corner of the the long section. You could put a highway bridge over the end with a mirror to create an optical illusion of the tracks going off endlessly. Since it's a shelf layout, you are probably aiming for switching. With switching, even a short train can be fun to run. If you have smaller sidings that hold less cars maybe you can have more industries. I am not sure of what time period you are modeling. I would be tempted to also have a passenger train on my layout, even if it is only a doodlebug or RDC. Just put a couple small passenger stations on your main and you can have another type of train to run.
traingeekboy I'm doing much better now that my appendix is out hehe ... Going back to work this coming week, on light duty. Still have a few weeks of having to take it easy, but need funds to pay for expenses and much needed Track supplies. I'm modeling the present day. I have a fleet of 1 Spectrum Dash 8-40CW, 2 Dash 8-40C, and 2 Life-Like GP38-2. 4 of them are lettered for CSX, the other is Dark blue with no lettering (unfinished). My scenario would be along the lines of a new offshoot railroad that has just taken over a local CSX operation abandoned by them. This railroad purchased CSX equipment and is now serving the local industries. So far only The flour mill is being serviced, but negotiations are in the works for two new industries. The idea of passenger service would be a good one. Could always use one of the locomotives for passenger service, and purchase a coach. That would make for more interesting operations. Thanks for the input traingeekboy! Cheers Adam :tb-rolleyes:
Adam: How comfortable would you be with a "Y" plan with the stem of the Y along the narrower portion of the L and the 2 arms of the Y along the wider portion of the L? The back arm of the Y would serve the Mill (3 tracks) and the front arm of the Y would serve a Yard (at least 2 and maybe 3 tracks depending on your preferences). Slant the Mill, three mill tracks, and two or three Yard tracks so the building and all tracks are parallel to each other (maybe with the yard tracks separated by an extra inch or 2 from the Mill tracks). The ends of the slanted tracks would be along the front edge of the shelf and running from about 10 to 20 inches from the end of the wide shelf and slanting back to the corner of the L instead of running parallel to the front of the shelf. There could be a slight difference in elevation between the level Yard tracks and the level Mill tracks to increase the sense of separation, but there would not need to be any steep grade. All Mill and Yard switching action would be visible at the front of the layout instead of behind buildings (although, if you have very easy access to the end of the wide shelf, you could even add a 4th siding behind the Mill, if you wanted). One option: all sidings could be positioned with points toward the base of the stem of the Y so no runaround would be needed. The stem of the Y should be long enough to hold the longest cut of cars you would push into the yard tracks. 2nd option: If a run-around is included near the corner of the L inside the valley of the Y (one side of the run-around going to the arm of the Y that serves the Mill and the other side going to the Y arm serving the Yard), it would be possible to serve industries at the very end of the narrow shelf. Again, I'd suggest slanted buildings and sidings instead of parallel to the front of the layout, so you have space for more sidings (if that's what you prefer). Seeing 2 sides of a building at angles to the backdrop instead of one side running parallel to the backdrop gives me the sense that the buildings are longer, and trains moving past them are covering more distance than when they pass in front of or behind buildings parallel to the front and back of the layout. Operationally, car movements would be pretty straight-forward: you would pull cars from the industry sidings and push them onto one of the Yard tracks, and you would pull cars from the other Yard track to push into the industry sidings. Operational interest could be increased in 3 ways: 1. Set up as many industries as you can until you meet your personal Spaghetti Bowl Factor (the point at which there are too many tracks crowded onto the shelf for your personal preference). 2. Make multiple sidings within the industries so you bring 1 or 2 cars from the Yard to an industry, but you also have to move 1 or 2 or 3 cars to a different spot within that same industry, and then take 1 or 2 cars back to the Yard. This way you have lots of switching action at an industry even though you only bring a few cars from the Yard. 3. Make one of your sidings lead to an Interchange track. This will give you a different destination for cars besides repeatedly moving back and forth between the Yard and an industry. Why slant the Mill and Yard? At 8 inches deep, your Mill's footprint will limit you to 3 tracks on the wide shelf. Everyone's idea of what is "interesting" is different, but for me, one track in the Yard and 2 in the industry would mean adequate Mill action but I'd be using the same set of cars every time for every operating session...not so interesting to me. Putting 2 tracks in the Yard would give me a second set of cars to switch (maybe even as a 2nd shift job in the same operating session), but would reduce the Mill action to one track...again, not so interesting. Putting the Mill, Mill tracks, and Yard tracks on a slant shortens them somewhat, but gives you space to add 2 or 3 more tracks. As a result, you will have lots more action and--IMO--more interest. Some people dislike seeing lots of parallel tracks, especially in a smaller layout where multiple tracks increase the Spaghetti Bowl Factor so quickly and reduce space for structures or other scenery. Other people look at it a little differently: they like the operations aspect and feel the trade-off with fewer structures and scenery is worth it...especially when they reduce the impact of multiple parallel tracks by vertically and horizontally separating groups of tracks a little, by visually separating them with scenic details like fences or trees, and by using different ballast colors or different ground covering in the separate areas. ...Your layout, your choice.
Dave that sounds real interesting! Could you show me in a diagram what it would look like? Sorry I am a visual person ... I understand the concept ... but trying to visualise it is where I hit a sort of mind block ... I can visualise the slanting of the buildings, just the track arrangements that are the hiccup. Thanks for the great ideas, this is real fun! For once I will take my time in planning before jumping into laying down track to run trains! i now have a lot to think over! Cheers Adam
Hi Adam, I like your operating idea.:thumbs_up: Its very similar to what I am doing.:tb-biggrin: In my scenario the GD&R owns a few locos and has to lease many more (permitting me to run what every locos I want). Also Amtrak makes a run on the line as an out and back to service the town once and while with one loco and one or two cars
In my world the GN took over the UP. The GandG give running rights to the GN and CP. The "Grey and Grandure" owns the only track through these parts of the the mountains and run a local along with a full fleet of bullet trains to points east and west. Of course there is the occasional steam powered escoursion train as well. The GandG give running rights to the GN and CP. It buys / rents locos from as far away as the Bangor and Arrosstock.
Well I'm glad my concept or "history" meets approval hehe ... Now if only I could picture Dave's idea of the track setup ... that would help lol ... Thanks to all of you for your input! Cheers Adam
AhA! Now I get it! Thanks Dave H for the drawing! As you said 1 picture does equal 1k words lol Cheers! Adam
