My original plan is to build a small layout that I can store under the cavity of my pool table. With the "cavity" layout, I can only dedicate 30" x 60". I would prefer a 36" x 72" HCD layout instead. Since I am unable to store it under the pool table in that size, I would like to hoist it up and store it in the garage when not using. Since I have issues with my back, I would prefer something that weighs less than 40 lbs (not including power packs/boosters, etc...). For those with HCD layouts, what is the weight of your layout? I understand it depends on mountains, scenery, etc. Thanks! :thumbs_up:
Get rid of the... ...problem. Yeah, a good game of pool is fun for visitors. But hey, it's your house and I'm thinking you'd rather much be switching some challenging industries than just pop at pool balls. Uh, pool is fun, the angles and the challenge- not to mention who's buying who...after that it's just... and there goes. Good luck with all that. Better you make that decision. I did have a hollow core door layout as a teen and it was all of 35 Lbs. Thanks, Mark Oh Yeah- to answer the question- you better get some BUFFERIN so's you can hoist that 20 Lb layout over your head just in case it comes down when you least expect...ahhhhrrrgh
Plain old HC doors weight on average... 24"...23# 30"...28# 36"...32# that doesnt include track or scenery .
I see. Another option is to build a ladder frame using 1" x 3" and a 2" foam base glue to the frame. That should be much lighter and give me the rigidity that I seek to move around. I was at Lowe's 2 weeks ago and they have furniture grade pieces of wood that is straight and already sanded smooth. Six of those 1" x 3" x 6' weigh less than 10 lbs based on my estimation. I forget which wood it was. For sure it was neither pine nor oak. The oak weighed more, but obviously more of a solid wood. What is the approximate weight of a plaster cloth (Woodland scenics) based scenery using a 36" x 72" as a guide? I was at the hobby store today and each package of the Woodland Scenics plaster cloth has to weigh close to 2 lbs.
I dont know the size of the WS plaster cloth. BUT...I wouldnt think the plaster cloth would weight anymore once wet...shaped...and dried. JMO .
First, if you plan to hoist it up in the garage, use a block and tackle rope hoist setup to save your back. Rigs for hoisting bicycles this way are readily available in big box home improvement stores. Do the research and design a system to stay with your lifting restrictions. Let simple machinery do the hard work for you. Second, question your own assumptions. Why do you need plaster for scenery? I used to cover my foam terrain with plaster and cheesecloth, but now I use foam alone. The plaster did not add any value to the final product. If your landscape will ultimately hide under a blanket of trees, why bother with the plaster?
Why not put a hoist in the ceiling over your pool table, and store the layout OVER the pool table? Wanna run trains, lower the layout down till it rests on the frame of the pool table. Friends come over to shoot pool? Hoist the track up, tie off the hoist rope, and play away! Instead of a HCD, you could (as you mentioned) build it on a lightweight open frame fitted to the size of your pool table, with padding on the bottom of the frame to protect the finish of the table... Of course, you might have an issue with lighting... perhaps solve that with a ring of track lights around the perimeter of the table(s), angled slightly in towards the center, so they're still mostly aimed down, but are out of the way of the layout as it comes up. Just a thought...
I did the same thing back in the 70's in my 2 car garage converted to a bar/playroom. I had HO back then...set up on a 4x8 plywood. I used 1x6 as a frame under the plywood. I used some small aircraft cable as the hoist. An eyebolt in each corner of the layout..."S" hooks on the cable ends. The cables ran straight up thru the ceiling...running thru 4 pulleys that attached to a single cable 10 feet from the junction of the four cables when the layout was lowered down to the the pool table. When lowered...I unhooked the S hooks and cranked the cable back to the ceiling. I had one of those crank systems you see on the front of boat trailers bolted to the wall in the laundry room. When the layout was cranked back up to the ceiling... I had (2) 4 foot single flourescent shop lights with defuser panels underneath the layout...which gave nice lighting when using the pool table! I used 2 short male/female pigtails in one corner of the layout (that powered the shoplights) which I was able to unplug/plug in when the layout was about 12 in down from the ceiling. It all worked rather well...even though the ex wasnt real happy with 4 small holes in the ceiling for the cables...LOL * As a side note: I was working on the layout one day. I had a rattle can of black paint I was using. The ex wanted the layout cranked up out of the way. I attached the 4 S hooks and crank the layout up. Just about the time it was near being all the way up...I hear a 'hissssssssssssssss'. I lowered the layout to see a nice fan out of black paint about 3 feet long on her popcorn finished ceiling!!! This was in 1979...we got divorced in 80. I wonder if that paint episode was a contributing factor...hmmmmm. .
You may be closer than you think. Folks who are serious about playing pool are serious about the lighting. The position of the classic shrouded light over a pool table is very important, as the players read the relative light hot-spots on the balls. X height above the table, centered. Which is problematic when one wants to hoist a HCD through the space. Mind you, I don't know how to read the hilights on the balls, but a friend of mine who was a serious league player educated me once when I asked something to the effect of "hey, why are the lights always in the same place and so low in the pool halls?"
My suggestion for lightweight layout building..... All high density insulation foam with a 1x2 sub frame. This layout was 4'x8' and was easy to pick up by one person. The layout was built in my basement to fit on an existing table that the customer had. If you want to build light, stay away from the plaster hardshell method. Use foam. as you can see in the picture, the mountains are hollow for the most part. The only thing I still use plaster for is casting rock molds. All other surfaces are raw foam or foam with a skim coat of light weight spakling compound. A one gallon size bucket of light weight spackle weighs around a pound and will do pretty much the whole layout. This layout was built in two pieces to make it easy to transport which added to it's weight a bit.
Thank you for all of your replies. I need to check if we have blue/pink foam available. I know for certain that the white styrofoam is available. Does the lightweight spackling paste form a hard enough shell that I do not have to worry about cracking when I handle it?
The lightweight spackle is a vinyl based product. It doesn't get brittle like plaster and cracking is not really an issue. It's real use is for patching cracks in celings. It is designed to resist cracking. It is also nice because it sands about the same as the foam so you can sand and shape just as you would the foam. I usually only use the spackle to fill in seams and cracks. I don't use it as a complete cover over the whole layout. There is no need for a hard shell on a layout unless you plan on walking on it, and even plaster won't hold up to that. Shape the foam to the desired controur, fill cracks and countours with spackle if need be, sand to smooth, paint with a dirt colored paint, apply ground cover while the paint is wet. Continue from there as needed. It is a lot easier to plant trees in foam than into hard plaster also. This mini layout is going on 5 years old. It sets in our display case at the shop I work at and has been in and out to multiple train shows. The entire layout is foam and spackle. No plaster anywhere. The layout weighs less than 10 pounds with scenery and buildings.
Good to hear that the lightweight spackle has some flexibility. I guess I could use that and not Sculptamold or the WS plaster cloth.
Too small.... It was built to fit in a glass display case at out shop. It is 17"x42". I have customers that want to replicate it all the time and I suggest to them that they expand it to 24"x48" at least. The inner radius is 6 1/2" which is much too tight for average equipment. Also because of the short length, the grade is pretty steep up to the mine. It was done with white bead foam because at the time, that was all I had handy. It took about a week to build, spread over a month of Sundays. High density foam is the only way I will build any more.
I'm not sure I can assess what your layout will weigh, or how you could mount it. I suggest that a 4 x 8 layout (or smaller) of braced 2-inch foam might be the lightest construction you could use. That is, a 2-inch blank of foam with a lightweight 1 x 2-inch frame of solid wood around it. The frame would actually measure 3/4" by 2". You might need corner braces and thin intermediate members. In Las Vegas, you would have to special order 2-inch thick foam, and it might only come in 2' x 8' pieces (as in Albuquerque). There's a bit of engineering involved to create lightweight structures. And scenery can always kill the best of intentions. My framing is extremely lightweight, but then I covered it with heavy joint compound scenery. Why? Because joint compound was cheap, and I was in a cheap mode at that time.
My earlier description of framing is incorrect. It is actually furniture-grade 1x2s that I saw at Lowes. Lowes in Vegas does have 2" thick white styrofoam and some other foam that had a grey vapor barrier. I did not pay any attention to the grey vapor barrier foam because it was more expensive than the white stuff and I was just begining to learn about foam usage. I need to go back this weekend to see if it is the high-density foam or not. Am I correct to assume that the high density foam is easier to cut/carve/shape than the white styrofoam? I am going to follow Skipgear's recommendation and skip the plaster shell stuff. The only reason I thought about plaster shell was reading through the Woodland Scenics literature.
The white stuff is Expanded Polystrene (Popcorn foam) and is much messier to work with and not nearly as strong as the high density foam. The high density foam will be Blue or Pink. As mentioned, it may be hard to find in the west but it seems to me that people would want to insulate for A/C as well as for heat as is it is used for here in the Midwest.
