Oh man, I missed that!!! How did you get so close to Sullivan's Curve? Are they letting us in there now?
forgive this somewhat blind modeler. what models are those? i can't make out the fans well enough to tell......
cool. From the fan arrangement I was thinking GP 50s, but I didn't realize GP60s had that kind of cab on them. i thought they had the same kind of cab as the earlier GPs (38s and others)
Santa Fe specifically ordered them from EMD with the North American/Crew Cab. They were the first units for U.S. roads to be so equipped. (the canadian railroads had been using them for a while.) They were purchased for superfleet service and were the first new units to receive the new Red and Silver Warbonnet scheme. (well, the FP45s got it first.) Those -840Bs were the first GE North American ca units as well. This sparked the entire Wide cab trend. They first started delivery in I think 89-90? Santa Fe was the only railroad to purchase 4 axle units with that cab. Just fyi, the other spotting difference on a GP60 vs. 50 is the Dynamic brake blister. the 60 has a more squared off look compared to the 50 which has th emore clasic angle.
Sorry, but the Burlington Northern SD60Ms from 1989 would have been the first American units with the "safety cab." The Union Pacific "Centennial" units from 1969 don't count because EMD used the cabs off the F45 series and didn't add any extra bracing like the safety cabs today have. Done before the GP60Ms, again. In 1974-75 the Providence & Worchester purchased five M420Rs from Montreal which would have been the first four-axle safety cab units on a U.S. railroad. [ 13. April 2004, 18:56: Message edited by: BrianS ]
The more I reread the more errors I find... Amtrak had the GE 8-32BW "Pepsi Can" units and CN had EMD GP40-2LW units in addition to the P&W units already mentioned. [ 13. April 2004, 19:43: Message edited by: BrianS ]
Not exactly. ATSF 500 (8-40BW) has a builder's date of 10/1990 while Conrail 6050 (8-40CW) has a builder's date of 5/1990. There were also a number of GP60s delivered without the squared-off dynamic housing, including SP 9600-9619, SSW 9620-9634, ATSF 4000-4019, and EMD 5-7.
Are you sure about that? I remember distinctly reading the Trains mag issue on the 60Ms. The development that Santa Fe and EMD went into on them was emense completely revolutionizing the cab. the early GP40-2LWs do not have Safety Cabs per se. Santa Fe and EMD invented that. They were first delivered in I believe July of 1989. EMD then took those designs and generalized them to the SD60M which came out around the same time, but with 3 windows etc. The 8-32BW came out around the same time as the 8-40BW, after the 60Ms As far as MLW units in the U.S., I didn't know that, but again, the Canadian cabs weren't true Safety cabs. You're right though about Amtrak. Again, GP40-2LW aren't true Safety cab units. The confusion is in my use of the term crew cab. The crew cab was in use in Canada, the Safety cab wasn't. At least, that's the way I remember these events unfolding.
The true "Safety Cab" or "Canadian Comfort Cab" was developed in the mid early 1970's as a joint venture between the Canadian National railway and locomotive builders MLW and GMD (the Canadian equivalent of EMD) The product was the M420W and the GP38-2WL/GP40-2WL both these units had wide noses, which made room for the toilet and a pair of large virtical crash beams that were part of the frame itself designed to protect the cab in the event of a collision. The cabs also featured dual forward doors, one on the outside, and one inside the nose itself, this was done for 2 reasons. The first being that in the harsh Canadian winters, cold air force onto the front of the unit at high speed would have less ability to enter the cab, and for collision protection, to lessen the chance of crash material from entering the cab, the 2 doors were also designed to open outward and not inward, to prevent wind at high speed from blowing them open, or from a crash blowing them open. Although CN and GMD celebrated GP38-2WL 4760 as being the first unit being equipped with such a cab, CN M420 2500 beat it by several months. Many claim that the DDA40X, F45’s or others would have been the first safety cab units, but they’re cabs lack all of these features. Thrus they are not. As for the first American widecab unit, she would by P&W 2000, a M420 with ARR-B trucks. Built in the early 1970’s. The P&W units now work for the Iowa Interstate Railroad. Fast Forward Several years Both EMD and GE started working on they’re own Domestic US Safety Cabs in mid 1985. UP wanted a 6 axle unit from both EMD and GE, ATSF wanted a 4 axle unit, CR wanted both 4 and 6 axle units. GE took they’re B40-8 Demo 808 in roughly 1987 and rebuilt it with a test cab for UP, BN ATSF and CR to test and give input on. GECX 809, http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ge/ge809abp.jpg the first US built Safety Cab equipped unit. The results were far less then expected, and GE went back to the drawing board. On the EMD side of things, GM simply used the Canadian version of they’re cab and modified it with a 3 window arrangement to improve crew visibility They also used desktop controls similar to that used on the CN SD50F’s built years earlier. The first US built unit with this cab was UP 6085, built in Jan of 1989 (diesel experts will note that CP 9000, a SD40-2F built a year earlier would have been the first unit ever to have this cab) Problems were noted with the 3 window EMD safety cab. Mainly a problem with being unable to see a person on the front steps of the unit and with the vertical windows causing large glare issues with signals and the sun in the early morning and evening hours. A year and a half later ATSF 100 was built this unit featured a cab window setup similar to that used on EMD’s earlier F45’s and DD40’s, It was noted that his window arrangement fixed the glare issue, Plus allowed earlier window stocks to be used. However this cab was far from perfect, and more revisions would be made that would show up on BN and UP SD60M’s. And would ultimately lead to the CR SD60I’s with they’re isolated “Whisper Cabs” Now back to the GE. GECX 809 was far from perfect; several large problems were noted with visibility and with the units Desktop control stand, GE’s first attempt at designing one. GE ended up totally starting from scratch on a new cab, This cab would first appear on UP 9356 built 12/1989, Almost a entire year after GM would built its first SD60M for UP. The second road to receive these units would be CR in May of 1990, and the first production B40-8W would end up being ATSF 500 built in Oct of 1990. Matthew Mitchin
Wow! Thanks for the comprehensive information on wide/safety cabs Matthew I never realised just how interesting the development process of a new type of cab could be. Excellent!
BTW, the first wide cabs I saw were in Toronto, Canada when only CN had them. At the time I was not too keen on them, as they gave units quite a different look to the 'norm'. After they became widespread they now are the 'norm' and I like the look of them Funny how perceptions change!
That's what you get when you try to act like you know something. I'm still confused though, I though that ATSF took delivery of ATSF 100 in 1989 As a matter of fact, I just read a link (which I now can't find) that said July of 1989. But, it's confusing, because the FP45s were renumber to the 100 series briefly so it's hard to narrow it down. Also, some of the GP60Ms had their windshields replaced due to Glare issues, so that problem wasn't fixed by the modified design.
Never mind, got a confirmed build date off of http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=11205 May of 1990.
