I have a bunch of leftovers from the 2-6-8-0 project that involved an older MRC/Bemo 2-8-8-2 and a newer Rivarrossi 2-8-8-2 that got pressed into donor part service. So my mind has been partly occupied with this obsession to make something from all this collection plus all the goodies in 4 steam parts boxes and a small collection of shells and tenders. Bottom line is I am limited to 55 inch drivered power, unless I do some serious milling on the engine frame to accept some larger drivers and I really don't have the precision milling tools to do that and be reasonably successful. My thoughts are running to a GN 4-8-0, a big 2-8-0, or 0-8-0. So here is the leftovers. Any thoughts?
But the actual models have 55 inch drivers and maybe just a shade under that, closer to 54 inch. Which is why it became a candidate in the first place for a 55 inch drivered loco. And the results of the parts bash will be based on 55 inches. In fact the calipers confirm it at 54" and some slight change. Thus it is not inscale driver wise for either B&O or N&W which doesn't matter to me since I don't model either one. However the GN and SP&S did have a bunch of 55 inch drivered stuff which is what I'm modeling.
Well after messing around for several days with the previously pictured pile of parts, while I waited for decals to set and dry, and trying a number of way to come up with a 4-8-0 I've come to the conclusion that it is not feasible with the engine chassis I have to work with. That left a 2-8-0 or an 0-8-0 to try. Going with the path of least resistance and using most of the old Bemo parts a 2-8-0 is emerging from the scrap pile. Going to try for a GN F-7 since I can also stay away from converting the cylinders to a flat steam chest on top. Old scrap body from a long ago project will be the new donor shell for the F-7 after some serious cutting and splicing which won't happen until the mechanism is all together. Still have to swap the 2nd and 3rd drivers from the position I had them in when trying the 4-8-0 arrangement. I am also weighing a couple of options for doing a SP&S/GN Atlantic. the first is from scratch going to the parts box again. And the other is looking at the Model Power 4-4-0 as a possible conversion candidate. Would anyone know what is supposed to be the driver size on that loco?
Just finding this funny, the real world railroads spliced 2 and 4 -8-0s out of disassembled Mallets as well.
And another pile of parts from some long defunct Bmann 4-8-4s. Was looking at them as the basis for a possible Atlantic. Drivers measure out to 72 inches and I can fit a smaller motor in there if the shaft length is right. Of course that also depends if I can fix the Bmann Northern curse. Fine running loco if outdated except for one major Achilles Heel. And here is the Achilles Heel. It is the gears in the older Northerns, not the J model, that crack where the shaft from the driver inserts into the long side of the shaft on the gears. That lets the drivers rotate out of quarter and will at speed and load actually bend a metal drive rod. Had one do it last year. The line in the gear shafts is where the lube penetrated the crack. Other than for this issue and an outdated shell the loco is a running beast. I have only 3 out of 8 that have not cracked on two locos. The Js are just fine and it appears that Bmann finally changed that gear arrangement on the last release of this loco so maybe the problem is fixed. Still has the outdated shell however. In short don't buy the older model of this loco no matter what the price. Unless you need it for parts. Based on what I saw in the schematic at Bmanns web site the newest one has been finally reworked in the driver gearing arena. I am going to play with sleeving the axle shafts as a possible fix.
As far as sleeving the gear axle shafts nothing yet as all the tube stock I have would increase the diameter of the shaft going through the metal sideframe hole. Of course I could try to increase the size of the hole in the metal side frame piece. Only has to be done on one side. Then I thought about using some fine armature wire wrapping with a touch of ACC. That may be an option. Meanwhile on another defunct Bmann 4-8-4 chassis I started measuring and cutting down and test fitting. After trying a lot of different cylinder and main drive rod combos from my steam parts box I may have to live with some compromises if I go ahead with the try for a 4-4-2. First is I will have to settle for a main drive rod connection to the first axle rather than the last. And I will have to settle for a couple more scale feet of open space between the last wheel of the pilot truck and the first driver set. That all said here is a first look at a modified chassis with the unmodified above. Now that I have made the first cuts I will locate and measure the cylinder location to cut and shorten the chassis. With any measure of success there then it will be assemble the running gear and go into my motor box for a smaller motor that has the right length drive shaft and then cut down the rear area. I am still studying the MP 4-4-0 as a possible candidate having finally found on the great WW wasteland the driver size info. On my shopping list for tomorrows show trip and a side trip to that big retailer about ten minutes away from there is a 4-4-0. May think about acquiring a 2nd one if I can slide the cab back some for a belpaire and fit a trailing truck under it. I haven't found a schematic for a MP 4-4-0 on the web which would be a big help in my deciding processes. As far as finding another Bmann 4-8-4 for a parts donor I'll look at the show. Problem is that the folks on the bay are selling the older P.O.C. with it's bad gears for $69 and above. I never bought the long defunct older models, with thier bad gears, for that back when and I won't now. I just need to be able to salvage what gears I can out of an old one particularly the drivers set. I have three good ones, two which I need for this project and a spare. If I find a piece of junk without a tender laying in a box for cheapo I may be able to have enough gears to mess with the other chassis for that illusive 4-8-0.
Well made some more progress since the last post. First I found a number of 4-4-2s with the main drive rod connected to the front driver and a few with a decent little gap between the last wheel of the pilot truck and the first driver. So they existed. Set out shortening the chassis after determining cylinder placement based on the main drive rod length. Also shortened both metal side plates on the chassis and drilled new screw holes to mount same. Still messing with ideas to reinforce and salvage the bad gears left over. Also trying out some trailing trucks including a version cutdown from a Bmann 4 wheel truck now under the chassis. The white is styrene filler where I made the chassis cut. Some ACC is next to reinforce after the plastic glue dries. The motor is original. Don't know why Bmann used a double shaft but if I use this motor that rear shaft goes. Next cuts are the deck behind the motor mount once I determine what body I'm going to use or bash. Applying my ACC and then putting this away for awhile until I can get a look at the MP 4-4-0 before I go any further with this. The whole time messing with this I'm also looking at this chassis as the start of either an NP or GN 4-8-0. If I can live with the drivers being a bit too large then I may be able to shorten the back and use a smaller motor to get a shell with the cab at or slightly over the rear drivers. Of course if I succeed with these endeavors then Fox Valley will probably come out with a Pennsy based Belpaire boilered Atlantic and somebody else will introduce a 4-8-0.
Unfortunately I can say the I've known the whole Murphy family for decades now. Frustrated by the lack of a good geared steamer for logging and appalled at the cost, even back then, of the few brass ones I built two Class A Climax. A few years later along comes Atlas with thier Shay. Wanting a Ten Wheeler for some early small steam I built two. A few years later Bmann comes along with their nice little Ten Wheeler. I've been playing with a few different Northerns for awhile now and so have some others here, I'd bet we are getting close to seeing a Northern that is not another GS or ATSF unit, and I think I know who will do it based on some of the steam design changes in mechanisms I've seen lately. And a 2-8-8-4 is about to come out in HO. Already have the mechanism in the cab forwards in N scale. And those ran on the east coast, up in the lakes area, and the southwest. And I've been quitely fiddling with a Yellowstone design for a long time now. Yup Mr. Murphy and family are about to strike again as soon as I get some of the bugs out of my projects.
Sometimes the ideas are slow in coming. Wrestling with the old Bmann steamer split gears issue I came up with an idea to try thin metal foil strips wrapped around the gear shaft that is molded on using ACC. There is a lot of slop in the plastic chassis part with these gears where the shaft goes through but not in the metal sideframes. They are fairly tight. No worry about electrical issues as the plastic center part of the chassis and the plastic gear with shaft isolate both sides. I have a choice of copper, brass, or aluminum metal foils and went with the aluminum as it is more flexible for my use. Four complete wraps seems to do the trick as far as fitting nicely. Originally had six but too much. Then had a devil of a time getting the foil off to rewrap with four turns. So keeping it on the shafts seems to be working good using ACC. The axle shaft is sleeved in smooth plastic so wear should be minimal. Have one left to do for a set then overnight drying of the ACC. Tomorrow is the big test when I re-assemble one loco and brutalize it on the test track by popping wheelies in both directions the see if the drivers stay in quarter and the repair actually works, plus anything else equally brutal I can think of. Quick shot of three foil wrapped gear shafts and one unwrapped.
Years ago their was a site out there on the interwebs that showed and explained how to take brass tube, and reinforce bachmann gears in the same way. I'll heve to see if I can find it got it: http://www.2guyzandsumtrains.com/Content/pid=47.html
Thanks, I figured somebody had been down this path but I just could not find anything on a search. I've done one set of gears with the metal foil yesterday so I'm going to test today and see if it is a trick or treat.
Finally got around to re-assembling the Bmann 4-8-4 with the metal foil wrapped gear axles. Got everything together set up the test track, and the danged thing wouldn't run. Much head scratching, observation, and imploring the Railroad Gods, I finally figured out that hey stupid you put the wrong motor weight on this one. This is the double shaft can motor and you've bound the rear shaft dummy. Got the right rear weight and after awhile of coaxing the loco was running fairly well in both directions. So I think a success. However I've yet to tear it back down and examine the metal foil wrap for wear. I've printed the article that was provided by the link sent by Delamaize, again thanks, and the next set I'm going to try that way. I also think once the axle issue is solved I will add some brass wipers to the outside metal strips which appear to be bronze to better the pickup. However all is going to go on hold for at least a week due to my Wife's Mother passing. Time to be the rock of support for the woman who has been supportive of me for 44 years now. If I do any modeling to pass some time between trips to Maryland and other things it will be to tackle doing something with those two 52 foot tenders like maybe making a couple of smaller auxillary tenders out of them.
Well while passing the time yesterday while my Wife was at the funeral home with her brother and sisters I decided to tackle a short project with the two 52 foot tenders from the two Northerns. I came up with three auxillary tenders, could have done four, but decided to stay with three to avoid having to fabricate more than one end piece. Used some of the old 52 foot underframe and some stuff from the styrene scrapbox for the floors. Already have some cast resin truck bolsters to use and used weights from my weights parts box. Will add some back-up lights and two will need stirrup steps and an end platform added to one end. Some fill of joint lines remains which are small enought to use gap filling ACC. Will fit MT 1015s on at some point and go with trucks from the parts bins. No prototype has been followed. Most auxillary tenders where made from older small steam tenders that came from scrapped locos in company shops. Few were ever exactly the same. Probably won't get much more done for the next three days due to trips up the Maryland.
Still messing with the gear repairs to the Bmann 4-8-4s. Got everything sleeved with the brass tube and allowed a day for the locktite to set up on the sleeves. Re-assembled one and experieced gear binding. After much head scratching and disassembly and more head scratching I came to the conclusion that the 3/16th reboring of the axle shaft holes is probably a tab too big and allows to much slop. Found my binding issues with the 1st and 2nd drivers and the idler gears on just a lucky guess. Re- assembled the loco chassis with the 3rd and 4th drivers gear powerd and left the 1st and 2nd set to be drive rod powered. No more binding. I have a third one to try with after I get these two running, maybe, and I will reduce the reboring of the gear shafts a size smaller. Other than the one observation I'm following the article to the letter and hope to have drive rods installed tomorrow along with the motor to test one. I've also relocated the traction tire drivers to the 4th set as that is basically where the most weight is on this loco. Loco on bottom show where the two idler gears would have been and the sleeved axle shafts in the new holes before the metal sideplate addition.
Probably would do some but that would only be a temporary fix. The weird thing is that the outside metal strips on both sides are not modified at all therefore the collar on the driver hubs fits the same. That had some play in the factory design. One thing that crosses my mind is the possibility of gear shrinkage which is the problem of why the gear shafts split in the first place. Multiply that times 7 for the number of gears in the mech. and it may be just enough of a factor in the binding. Only a possibility though. Like I stated previously the removal of the idler gears on the first two sets removed the binding. The gears were cleaned with Naptha, then laundry detergent to remove all lubricant before they were sleeved. Once re-assembled they were lubed with LaBelle. These are the metal siderods and pins versions so the use of the drive rods for powering the first sets of drivers I don't see as going to be an issue, plus there are at least two locos out there currently that have this power version. I wouldn't even try this with the early run plastic siderods. Today I hope to have the driverods re-installed along with the motor and be able to test them in the cradle with motor power. If everything goes okay then I will install the lead and trailing trucks and last weight and try them on the test track.
Yeah, but then you'll have to keep re-greasing it. More prototypical. ;-) Seriously though, it sounds like the drive rods ought to work just fine without those idlers. Can't wait to see it completed.
