Hey guys, long time no hear. Been working on my river and not sure if the color for the water is too green or maybe a darker green?
greetings columbia the second photo looks like a better shade of green than the first but, yes, the photos look too green perhaps some brown to tone it down some? just my thoughts respectfully Gary
Water tends to be one of the more difficult things to model. To my eye the water represented in the photos tends to look like that found in small ponds with a lot of algae growth. Faster running water tends to take it's colors from the sediment that is washed into to the water from upstream and the slower deeper patches can reflect the sky color or foliage and terrain when viewed from a distance. Minerals from mine tailings or natural deposits can also color water. Since this looks like a faster moving body of water I would suggest to lighten it up some and as suggested maybe a slight light brown to simulate some sediment suspended in the water form a recent rain upstream.
Definitely better in number two. The middle, where water would be deeper, looks OK. I believe it would help if there were at least some brown hues along the shore line.
The water in the shot with the bridge looked a little too clear green to me. (I wouldn't ever say this except you asked.) Sometimes water might be this green if it had some chemical effluent in it, but I wouldn't expect "natural water" from algae etc. to be this green and this clear at the same time. The closer picture with a little ridge of rocks in the water looks just right to me.
I used Tamiya dark green, the water is magic water. Great stuff too use, I will be doing one more pour so maybe a different green with some brown in it?
I agree..Your first pic is way too bright overall,I may go almost that bright on just the very outermost edges of a little mud pond.On larger,non moving bodies of water,I make the water almost clear on the very edges,then a medium green on the edge a little further out,progressively darker toward the middle,then very dark,vivid green,almost black like Brunswick,but greener where it would be deeper.I do it by mixing dark the very dark green paint right in my Envirotex,then I pour it only in the deep section.[Deep being maybe 1/4 inch..] I pour successively lighter layers until I get to the last,then I pour a thin layer of clear for the top & outermost edges.. For streams & rivers,I do pretty much the same thing,since I model real bodies of water mostly,I go by what color they would be when I model them.Moving water I've seen is usually either clear,or brown hues.. Here in Pa,mine runoff makes some stream beds and rivers bright orange!! The Susquehanna River,BIG river a few blocks from me,several hundred yards wide,was bright yellow orange on my side of the river where the Lackawanna river emptied in when I was a kid in the 60's,was full of iron oxide from mine runoff from the Scranton/Old Forge area..
Out in my region, in slower moving streams there are a couple of algae which can grown in warmer weather. One turns water a rusty orange, the other almost a pink. The later we even occasionally find in sinks and bath tubs.
We have reservoirs in the mountains here for our water,so,no problems like that,but many of the streams and rivers were horrible for years after the mines shut down after the Knox Disaster in '59.Many are just now getting cleaner,the worst offenders are now run through limestone fields to clean them up.The water was scummy,nothing could live in it,it had high Sulfuric acid concentrations,and worse yet,it smelled like rotten eggs..Luckily,no smell in town where I lived..
The best way to decide what color is appropriate for your "water" is to go to the actual water you want to model and document it. Just trying to decide if it "looks right" is going to lead to a lot of opinions with no basis in fact...just opinions, and everybody sees the colors in water and the sky differently. Since most of us view our layouts from a "God's Eye View" it's hard to make your streams, rivers and ponds look "right" because when we go and take photos, unless we can climb a nearby cliff and shoot a photo or video downward, we see the actual water only a scale five to ten feet above its surface...that's about 3/4 of an inch in N scale. An excellent resource for waterways all over the country comes from hi-res satellite photos at Google Earth. What you'll find is that on small rivers and large streams, you see a little shore-line color at the edges, but a couple of shades darker...like pouring water on the concrete on your driveway...it's still concrete colored, but it's darker than dry concrete. Where I live, the Weber River is pretty clear...not crystalline, but you can see that weeds...long weeds start growing about three feet out into the stream. These are middle to dark green and where the water gets deeper, and wave in the current. They also grow on the bottom of the river, but when the water gets more than 12' deep or so, it starts turning black. So, the four main colors I use are artist's acrylics which are the color of the shore dirt, but a couple of shades darker, a light green, a darker green, and black. I don't make any sudden delineations between the colors except sometimes I'll "swirl" some green into the dark to represent the seeds waving in the current. Some pointers are that the channel (the blackest part) is not always in the middle of the river/stream, and most of the time weaves back and forth, and almost always is on the outside of a river's curve. Sand bars are common and extend outward into the stream on the inside of curves. They also trail on the downstream side of big boulders or rocks. Sometimes, you can see submerged rocks, which appear a lot like spots of different sizes among the greens and blacks. I create water in two stages....first, the resin pour. Sometimes, depending on what I'm trying to represent, I'll mix in a little dirt colored enamel so that the "water" is not crystal clear. I like this effect a lot, and even clear mountain rivers get a little muddy during Spring run-offs. I use a straw to breathe C02 onto the uncured resin after I've poured it to get the bubble up. You can use a small propane torch too. When blowing on the uncured resin with a straw, spit will come out and sit on top of the resin. Don't worry about it. Second, after the first resin pour has cured, I go over the "creep" and use a flat shore-colored paint to cover it up as it's very unrealistic. After I do this, I apply a couple of coats of clear gloss medium to create waves and rapids. This is usually a two day operation and really makes the "water" show which direction it's flowing. After it's dried and clear, I dab small whitecaps where they'd be appropriate. These dry flat, so after they're dry, I put a bit of gloss medium on them to make them "wet". Photos of real shorelines really help when creating waves, swirls, and small rapids. Remember that just like the rest of your trains, you're creating a model here, so have references. Waterfalls, big rapids, and ocean waves would require much more discussion. Here are some photos of small rivers/streams created using the above method: Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
Sorry, but it looks as if green dye was spilled into the stream. Someone has already posted that the best source for the color of water in a specific stream is to go there and look at it. I would add as well to look at it during the season of the year that you are modelling. Certainly in Illinois, some streams contain a lot of silt during the heavy rains, so they look like coffee with extra crème in it, but that is not true for the same steam at another time of the year.
The Knox Mine disaster happened in January of '59...The mine management had the miners working too close to the Susquehanna River,it broke through the roof of the shaft,and flooded the entire Northern Anthracite Coal Field.It was normal to actually be under the river,but the minimum safe rock thickness was 38 feet,these guys were at something like 12 feet.To give you an idea of just what that meant,at one time,you could walk into a mine at Forest City,[Pack SEVERAL lunches..] and walk back out in Hometown,some sixty miles!! I was on the Lackawanna Coal Mine Tour once,the miner pointed out the Gangway,the main tunnel for the mine..It was boarded up about 100 yards from where we were.I asked the miner how long it actually was..The answer absolutely floored me:"Thirteen and a half miles.." There were HUNDREDS of shafts like this under the entire region,an entire little country among itself. This all happened a few blocks from where I grew up,I was four when it happened.My Mom was a nurse at Pittston Hospital,which was so close to the disaster,you could see it from the lawn.She's actually in the video about the disaster.I grew up with 5 huge coal breakers almost visible from my house,HUGE culm banks everywhere,although not actually in town where I lived.I played in the breakers as a child,and there were dozens of railroads in my town. When the breakin occurred,there was a whirlpool 300 feet wide where the water was rushing in.The Lehigh Valley Railroad Passenger Mainline was right next to it,they diverted the track,and started shoving dozens of old coal hoppers into the rushing water.Some floated away,and ended up on the river bank..The hulk of the last one was just removed last year. I was fortunate to have known several of the 18 miners who escaped.The last survivor,"Bucky" Mazur,was a friend of the family,just died last year. Actually,it was this event that eventually helped lead to the bankruptcy of all the Eastern Railroads,LV,CNJ,D&H,EL,PC,ETC,and the formation of Conrail,although these railroads would have eventually ended anyway,since coal use was declining already,because of the use of oil for heating.. .
Thanks guys! Robert only problem with water color that would be appropriate for my "water" is I'm not modeling after any real railroad. But at the same time coal is a big thing on my railroad, Santa Fe, DRG&W too name a few are trains I like too run. Modeling 1975-1980 is my time frame I guess you can say. I'm not big on prototype railroading as far as the layout goes but I don't want it too look like a toy nether.
Roger no problem, glad you point that out about the color! I used a Tamiya Dark green looks like you what you said it is dye spilled into the stream.
Since you're still modeling a place and a time,look at ponds,streams,ETC in person or pics to see what they should look like..
Uhhhh...??? You're attempting to model "real' water however, aren't you?? What railroad it runs by is totally inconsequential. My suggestion is to find a stream or river that you like, either collect photos online of it, or, if it's close to you, go take your own photos...find it on Google Earth to see what it looks like from directly above...then use these references to guide you. Treat it like you would building a model of something, since you ARE making a model of something that exists all over the place in different forms, but with similar characteristics. Two of the photos I posted are of "fantasy rivers" I made on friend's and client's layout and module, and have no relation to any river that actually exists other than I used the same colors and techniques to make them just like I do on my Weber River on my own modules/layout. Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
