I have a relatively small layout of Unitrack. I envision app. 12 #6 turnouts and one double crossover. I have been considering using DS64's or Lenz LS150. Not experienced in this what are the thoughts of those using DCC for turnout control of these systems and does one or the other have advantages? Looks like cost wise it's about the same. Papa
I’m planning on using one of these, I haven’t really decided yet. I had always planned on using the DS64 but I’ve seen some other stuff that doesn’t take up so much room and maybe a little less money. The main problem is the Kato turnout they need a special controller. NEC has a digital controler for Kato turnouts called the Switch Kat. There have been a few post on this just this past week.
I’ve download a ton of information from Team Digital, LLC that looks a lot more interesting. I haven’t had a chance to go through it yet. I have a long flight on Monday and I plan on studying it on the plane. You should check out Team Digital.
The TeamDigital SRC boards, Digitrax DS64, NCE Switch-Kat and the Lenz are all perfectly fine controllers for DCC switch activation. Each have their unique positives and limitations. On the whole, they are also relatively the same cost per turnout. The first two in the list have the ability to work over LocoNet, rather than track commands, if you have a Digitrax system. The Switch-Kat has simple on board support for signal lights while also controlling the switch (the SRC can control either the switch or signal). I'm not all that familiar with the features of the Lenz. On the JACALAR, I have the turnouts direct controlled by DS-64s, and my control panels are TD's SRC-16s. I also plan to add additional SRC-16s for the on-layout signals (when I finally get to those).
Advantage of "working over Loconet"? Could you clarify what you mean by "working over Loconet" vs. "track commands"? From Team Digital's murky documentation, I take it that this enables the user to implement an "accessory serial bus" linked to (but independent of?) the DCC signaling network. This is stated to have numerous advantages; however, they are not explained. Thanks! =-B.
If you're using a Digitrax Command Station you can just plug a loco net cable into the DS64 along with a power supply, and then hook straight up to your switches. (this is how mine are) With the others you would need to hook into your track to get signals from you Command Station, be it digitrax, DCE or anything else.
The main advantage of using the LocoNet over the track, I can have the power to the track off and still control all the switches. I have my control panels and DS-64s hooked up through my auxiliary power supply, which is independent of track power. LocoNet is also what is used to communicate to the JMRI software (for Digitrak systems), so I can monitor the commands, which was particularly useful for debugging the panels when I would push a button and either nothing switched, or the wrong turnout moved. No matter how careful one is with the programming of all the different boards, errors are still made. Both the DS-64 and SRC-16 will send commands over the LocoNet, so that other units can be controlled. This allows for some serious routing, if one is so inclined.
What do you mean by hook up straight up to your switches? I’m assuming that you are not using Kato turnouts.
Well I’m really confused now, because I thought that the way the Kato worked was by reversing polarity. I read the DS64 manual and it only mentioned two switches , the twin coil and the slow motion which neither being a single DC coil operation where the polarity is what changes the direction of coil movement. I guess I need to reread the manual, because I obviously missed something.
Well that’s great news! I don’t know how I missed that, I guess I never read the 'Quick Start'. I must have posted 10 questions on this very subject on 3 different forums and no one responded with the correct information. I thought I was going to have to buy a Switch Kat for every turnout. Now I can drop that expense. Thanks Jason for clearing that up. :thumbs_up:
Use of DS64's I have a very small [6' by 3'] layout with all Kato Unitrack components [1 double crossover & 7 turnouts]. I utilized [2] DS64's to operate all turnouts. The Kato double crossover only requires one of the DS64's outputs to throw all four points. I have never had any issues and could not be more pleased.
This is a plus. The non-Loconet-compatible controllers can't do this because they rely on the track power to get the juice AND the commands. The down side is that you'd have to run a Loconet cable to every DS-64. I don't think this is right -- I mean, yes, you can monitor the DS-64 commands, but you can also monitor the commands sent to non-Loconet compatible turnout controllers, too. Loconet is a proprietary network-level architecture that carries standards-conformant DCC messages, so you should be able to originate commands within JMRI to operate the Lenz and other non-Loconet compatible decoders. But Loconet also works with a superset of proprietary Digitrax protocols, which work with the non-standard, proprietary capabilities of the DS-64. I think that the advantage of using the DS-64 with JMRI and Loconet is that this combination detects the state information of the turnout (e.g., open or closed) when you turn the power on. The non-Loconet compatible decoders don't acquire state information until you've sent a command to them... and then Loconet (and JMRI) records and monitors the state as equal to the command you sent. Yes, but only because the Loconet-compatible decoders automatically report state information. I think you can still implement routing with JMRI and non-Loconet decoders, but you'd have to operate all the affected decoders at the beginning of the session so that JMRI would have the correct state information. It's not that routing is impossible with the others, but it's easier and more convenient with Loconet-compatible decoders. To sum up, if I've got this straight, you'd want to go with Loconet-compatible decoders and if you want to set up no-hassle routing and like the idea of powering your turnouts from a separate circuit. If these aren't important to you, you can save a lot of dinero by going with the alternatives. --B.
Do you "daisy chain" the DS64's together by running wire from one to the other if using an aux power source? Papa
Ralph, Yes, you can do that, if the power supply has sufficient amperage. I run a 12V DC bus around my layout from a PC power supply, and power each DS-64 and SRC-16 from that. Bryan - Yes, I didn't mean to imply that JMRI cannot be used to its full extent without LocoNet; but I've been using the LocoNet Monitor tool that comes in the JMRI package, so that item is specific. The biggest advantage to not using track power for the DS64 power and commands: you can operate the turnouts when power is off! A huge advantage when something is shorting (I know, one could always switch them manually)
This is a key point since the reason for the short is very often a train that is trying to enter a turnout that is lined against it. Using loconet is one way around this problem. Another option is to create a separate power district for DCC accessories.
In the "old days" (pre-DCC), one would have all his turnout controls on a panel (central or local), with the control wiring radiating out to the individual turnouts. Routes were handled by a diode matrix at the center of the maze. DCC stationary decoders were a way to eliminate a lot of this wiring by letting the track carry the power and control signals to the vicinity of each individual turnout and programming routes into the command station. Somebody noticed, however, that a short at the turnout would also take down turnout control it and thus the ability to resolve the short (D'OH!). Powering from the track also sapped DCC power that could otherwise be used for running trains. One alternative was to run a separate DCC bus to all stationary decoders and place them in a "power district" of their own. The problem with this was the need to run parallel DCC busses (track power and turnout power), and (at the booster level at least) there was still the power-sapping issue. By powering turnout decoders directly from a separate (non-DCC) supply, and using the LocoNet to send commands, both of these issues are avoided (LocoNet cable being a bunch cheaper and easier to handle than DCC bus wire). In addition, with the DS64 and its internal routes capability (along with the ability to use the DS64s local inputs to trigger the routes), you can string any number of DS64s together and operate the turnouts and routes entirely separate from your DCC track power. Indeed, by providing a "LocoNet termination" that normally would be provided by a Digitrax command station and using DS64 local inputs, you can even operate turnouts and routes totally independent from your train control (DCC or DC) system. It's all fun.
Doug That was among the clearest explanations to this issue I have ever read on any of the several forums I subscribe to. Well done. If I EVER have any wiring or DCC issues I would humbly request that I might call upon you? Dick Brown Chambersburg, PA Young-at-heart 80 year old [73 in model trains]
