Boxcab; The fire is getting plenty of O2. It is burning in the celing. About 1700 feet have total collapse. Today we were working at about 1100 feet in from the south side and encountered active fire with timbers and debris falling from the roof. It looks as if it will be burning behind the spray-crete this eve. The atmosphere is above 750ppm of CO, so it is well into the IDLH. Makes me nervous to work in due to my lack of understanding of tunnel construction and the fact that a tunnel has no doors or windows to bail from like a structure fire does.
Fireman, see if they can borrow one of the water tanker rail cars with the hose nozzles mounted on top that are used for forest fires! Maybe pushing it in with the spray pumps running would cool the ceiling ahead enough to cause a circulation that could draw out some smoke and CO2. No one has to ride on those, and several flat cars or gondolas would keep the engine out of the tunnel. I remember seeing a gondola with a front end loader scoop mounted on one end. It was radio controlled. It could be rigged with a camera for an operator to "see" from back where he is out of the tunnel. It could have been rigged up and running by now. Ride safe old buddy!
Fireman .. thanks for the graphic update of just how serious this fire is. I have been trying to get up there to see for myself, but they won't allow anyone in the area. I do not know the exact construction of the tunnel. But considering it is an original tunnel from the late 1800s' and that it is a granite / sandstone geology I would imagine it was simply blasted through with dynamite, then shored up with timbers. I heard, (and do not know how accurate it is) that the interior of the tunnel had been sprayed with a 'gunnite' type of material some years ago. This material was sprayed over decades of accumulated carbon residue on the ceiling issued by steam locomotives, and this residue is what is burning under the coating. I guess in some ways it is not much different than a woodstove / flue fire. I was also told that a robot was sent into the tunnel with a spray apparatus with little or no good results. Do you know if this is accurate? Boxcab .. I have not answered your question about the grade or crown of the tunnel because I do not know for sure. The tunnel is located right at the summit of the Siskiyous and I would suspect that it is at least close to level in this location. Maybe Fireman can answer that question. No matter how you cut it, this is big trouble for CORP, and could be the end of the YWRR. I sure hope not. Fireman, you, and all the others who are working to stop this fire are appreciated for your risk. Just be careful friend !
Hi Fireman! Welcome aboard! Received your message. How it all works, here at Trainboard- This is like a bulletin board. People post a topic or responses, as they have free time to stop by and send an e-mail or read. Some folks check frequently during a day. Others stop by once a day. Or less often If interested in trying to start a more active chat. There is a topic currently located in "Top of Trainboard." The subcategory is "Cattle Car." That thread is: http://www.trainboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/get_topic/f/60/t/000001.html? Take a look, and see if it seems interesting. Boxcab E50
When they qualified their original statement "at least three weeks," I was worried. Am betting this lasts at least double that time frame. Which is very bad news. I'll second your thought of the people being careful! Boxcab E50
Xingman (real name Rick Perry, signal maintainer for CORP) had provided regular updates on the Tunnel 13 situation on the Yahoo CORP fan group. The most recent was yesterday; gasses in the tunnel were limiting the amount of work that could be done in the bore. The collapsed portion of the tunnel had not been reached yet. The contractor brought in from Washington to fight the fire was optimistic that not much damage had been done due to the low amount of heat that the fire generated. Most important of all, the GM told Xingman that he was commited to doing everything possible to get the tunnel open, as perminent closure of the south end would cost CORP something like $300,000 per year in lost revenues. Another person on the CORP fan list posted that an 89' flat loaded with tunnel supports has appeared on a house track in Eugene, waiting movement south. CORP has added a second road job north from Roseburg per day to handle the additional traffic that is going that way (the second job may not be an every day thing, as it is dependant on stuff coming up from the Medford area). Apparently they are having some problems getting all the cars needed in Medford to Medford. UP provides CORP with power to run the Euguene-Roseburg haulers, and they have committed to providing enough power to make the second road job possible. As to the idea of putting a fire car in the tunnel...I doubt it would work. For starters, all of CORP's fire cars are on the north side of the tunnel, which is the side that is sealed off. The south side currently provides the only real access, and it is limited. Then you have the entire issue of how stable is the tunnel...would the vibrations caused by shoving a car into the tunnel, or the force of water being shot agains the ceiling, be enough to cause further collapse of the tunnel? CORP would be foolish to put a locomotive into the tunnel; which means that, even if they did try this, they would have to find something like 2,000 feet worth of sacrificial freight cars to be used as spacers so that a fire car could be pushed far enough into the south end to do any good. CORP did bring a couple fire cars up to the north portal of the tunnel. Unfortunately, they had already been winterized, so the pumps had already been removed. The cars did act as a water supply for the initial firefighting efforts. Hope this helps. I'm interested to seeing how this turns out. -JD Moore Elko, NV
I follow situations like this, anywhere in the USA and Canada, with interest. I feel that railroads are a very vital part of our transportation future in North America. And thus I dislike the thought of losing any track or company. I would hope that any financial backers of CORP will indeed be closely working with them. Keeping this company going. Anyone- Please do post news on this event. Boxcab E50
Thanks for the info JD. I know Rick Perry but I have not seen him around Shasta Valley for a few weeks. I'll keep posted information as I learn it too.
From the CORP fan group...no real change in status/situation reported, apparently fire is still burning and no one has any better idea of what it would take to re-open the tunnel that a few days ago. One futher development...one member of the CORP fan list indicated that he ran into a Yreka Western engineer at a train show (was that you Bill?) who told him that the loss of the veneer traffic forced the railroad to suspend work on bringing their steamer #19 back into service. (The #19 is a Baldwin 2-8-2 logger, blt 1915 for a lumber company in Arkansas, sold to a Mexican mining firm, picked up by the McCloud River in 1924, sold to YW 1953, leased to Oregon Pacific & Eastern 1970-1988, back on the YW 1989, undergoing work to bring it into compliance with new boiler regulations for the last year or so).
JDLX - Yes, that was I at the Medford train show last Saturday. But I think the interpritation of what I told him was taken out of context. Firstly, the tunnel fire has stopped all CORP traffic over the Siskiyous, resulting in the YWRR not being able to ship veneer and peeler-core cars via Medford. This accounts for approximately 65% of revenue for the YWRR. It is possible to ship veneer via Weed at the Black Butte UP interchange, but that would not be profitable for Timber Products. So they prefer to ship their products over the Siskiyous via truck until such time rail service is restored. Secondly, there has been no work done on #19 since last May. Reason being is we have no volunteers to help us, (not that we don't want them .. they just don't exist here!). My fireman and I were the only persons working on #19 but had to stop so that we could operate the Blue Goose excursion train all summer. The loss of revenue due to the tunnel fire has put work on #19 on the back burner until service is restored over the Siskiyous. I can tell you that the owner of the YWRR receives information from CORP daily regarding the status of the tunnel and that he is determined to have number 19 running again as soon as possible. The YWRR intends to hire a boiler making company from the Seattle area to refurbish the boiler of #19. The contractor said it will take approximately 3 weeks to do the work, so we have pleanty of time .. just a shortage of cash at the present time. After the boiler work has been completed and tested, all that will remain to do is put insulation, lagging, pipes, fittings, firebricks etc back on and in it. Wanna get your hands dirty? Come on over and I'll put you to work! Work is progressing on the tunnel from the north portal. While there have been cave-ins reported within the tunnel, they appear to be from one layer of strata, not floor to ceiling. As of yesterday, there was reportedly no trace of smoke issuing from the portals. CORP has hired a tunnel engineering firm to evaluate and repair the damage. Clean up is underway as I write this. No doubt, it will be several weeks before traffic is restored. But I am very encouraged about what I learn from outside sources.
Just curious- I'd never thought about uses for peeler cores. Other than fence posts and landscape stuff, what market is there? Boxcab E50
