I have an SW-7 which has had all the usual things done to it that you do to Athearns. Also has NWSL wheels, has been a really good running switcher, that is until today, when it started going slow then fast slow then fast etc,, it does this at low speed as well at about half speed, I,ve been through all the normal things that you look for when trouble shooting, but can not seem to find the problem. Please help !! Yep track is clean, wheels clean, brushes clean, all wires intact, etc. Thanks for any input that may help. Yeah, I hope to repower it soon, but I need to get it back to work. Robert
Robert, My advice is to remove the motor from the frame and drivetrain and attach power to it, if it still runs fast then slow, then it's time to repower. If it operates OK then I would remove each truck and see if it binds when you do a static roll, check for crud building up on the truck bolster this could prevent electrical contact. Sometimes the gears in the trucks have flash and burrs. You mention it has been running fine, this would lead me to believe that the motor is the culprit. Save your nickles.... 2slim
Robert, Just remembered there was a topic about repowering a while ago on the board. Check out this link, they have a pretty inexpensive motor for a Athearn SW7. Alliance Locomotive 2slim
On this I wouldn't mind knowing one other thing as well to add to what information you already gave. Being I do repowering and so forth for a living in this hobby and all I might be able to help you! Take off the body shell, look inside of it and I need to know what type motor it has, I know already its gear driven which tells me its not the band driven loco with the "band motor" which is completely different then the 2 different types of gear driven motors! Now then, their is a slight difference between the gear driven motors that Athearn used. One of, and the first of, is the motor has a blackened color banding around it thats the magnet covering which is sort of round and in a way fat as in wide being its round. Or is the motor completely flat on each side and has like a goldish / Titanium magnet cover sides color, and narrow? Depending on the motor you betcha its the motor! The older round darker colored motors were good running motors, only one catch with them. The very second they got hot or slightly over warm creates a problem it weakens the brush springs and the brushes in these motors were very touchy with heat and the springs did not help matters any... As for the newer narrow flat sided motor thats shinny and Titanium colored, I would asume you get a set of worn brushes or in a figure of speach "cooked" brushes... Which are more or less a hit or miss type thing. I've had a few "not many cases" of this with the newer Athearn motors thats from the late 1980's all the way up to 1998 or so till Athearn had made the newer motor which is in their C-44-9W's and AC4400's and even the same as the motors in their now Hi-Tech Genesis line... If you have any questions and would like you can contact me by clicking on the red link in my signature and drop me a line to say a few things extra or if you would ant to have someone do the work for you... I'd be interested in helping out and or even doing the work if you so wanted to have it done customly...
John, you hit it right on the head, a burned brush. I decided to run the loco in the dark to see if I could see any sparks where it might be shorting out, first thing I saw was the lower brush looked like a welder light, while the top brush was not makeing any spark, changed brushs and it runs like a champ again. Thanks Robert
Robert, Do yourself a favor, on that loco or any other Athearn loco when doing a repair on the motor always, but ALWAYS make sure the brass/copper stripes that snap on to hold the brush springs in place along with the other metal strip is always in good contact. these help the armature along in the amp draw. Inother words it takes more voltage and amp to go through the 4 pieces of brass/coper stripes (2 for each polarity, possitive and negative) and then draws 1/3rd more then it should on the transformer! In turn this will make your power pack hot in less time then it actually should be, or how fast it gets hot! Its ups the amp and voltage draw and causes this. Another thing I would suggest if you know how (and I'm sure you do, being you took out the old motor brush and replaced it) is get rid of all the metal strips that are contacks! Like wire, and replace them with a good copper soft flexible wire and solder them to the places they belong as the metal strips did... The one thing to this is make sure your wire is free enough for the trucks to "track" or swivel with the rail and not bind it and so on... Plus the another good thing is You wouldn't have to do both the possitive and negative sides! Just the possitive, its the contact on top (the metal striping) The negitive side is the frame and the bottom of the motor. Also keep a good eye on the contact plates where the trucks mount in a male female type pin or bolster. This also conducts electric for the motor! And the side plate that comes up and around the bolster and make sure theirs at least some space between it and the bolster plate... On the motor, while running take some 800 to 1000 grit sand paper (wet or dry) doesn't matter as long as its really fine! And sand or polish the copper contacts on the motor armature! And then clean out the slots in the same location to keep from getting a oil/greae/dirt/grime/ brush carbon from building up on it... then once the sanding is done and the slots are cleaned out take sone 71% or 90% alcohol and clean the armature to make sure its completely clean.... Do all this above every so offen and you'll have some really long lasting loco's.. The only thing I can think of wrong with the Athearn diesels comes down to all the noise.. and thats another story on shimming the worm gear and getting rif of the excess play in the keyed drive shaft....
The only thing I can think of wrong with the Athearn diesels comes down to all the noise.. and thats another story on shimming the worm gear and getting rif of the excess play in the keyed drive shaft.... Yep, I,ve got one that I've been tweaking for nearly a year now, kinda sounds like an unbalanced viberator gone mad. But there is a good side, it only does this in one direction!! Thanks for the input on the SW7, I've done all the things you discussed. Robert
I'd like to add to the information on bufing and cleaning the armature. Use a very narrow strip of 600 and then 1200 grit wet-dry sandpaper to get i smoothed down. Now use an eraser like you find on an ink pen. Not a pencil, but an ink pen. They're light in color and harder than standard erasers and will do a more thorough job buffing the armature. When you're done it'll be a lot smoother. This will help to reduce the noise of the motor, improve the electrical contact of the brushes, and reduce the wear on the brushes. A properly set up motor will have very little wear on the brushes. The very fact that the brushes are wearing indicates to me that the armatures are not properly smoothed down and polished. Just something extra for us "tweakers" to do when we are bored and don't have anything useful for us to do around the house. Mark
I have a SW-7 from Athearn that does the very same thing as mentioned above. Forward, and all is well. Reverse makes a loud grinding noise. I have followed recomended practices and have simply learned to live with the noise. I may check the gear towers for binding or flashes in the plastic. Otherwise, it's a dependable engine.
Steve, Make sure one of the 2 drive shafts are not rubbing somehwere... Now I know alot is going to jump me here being that it doesn't make any noise in forwards, but that doesn't mean anything.. You have to concider the motion and how the motor throws it and how it works with the weight and track work.. reversing it can throw it out of balance and be rubbing somwhere... Inside the trucks is a good place to start. Look at the gears in forwards, they move from side to side (play) and when reversed it slams them to the opposite side... Check to see what side it is in reverse that the gears are ridding on and look at that preticular side of the gear face closest to the truck frame and plates... thats most likely where their would be flashing. Do this on both trucks! Also, does the loco have flywheels? I'm taking a wild guess that it does being Athearn, but be sure that the older Athearn loco's didn't have flywheels! But check the (play) in the flywheels! They could be slamming to the front in reverse and rubbing the metal contact strips.... This is most likely whats happening... The strip[s are low enough that when reversed and the motor shaft goes in either dirrection the flywheels are rubbing the metal styrips... If it doesn't have flywheels, then take the same procedure and check the couplings right at the trucks... where the drive shaft snaps onto the truck, the coupling could be rubbing the metal strip at this location, make sure you check BOTH trucks in any avent. If this is the problem, you have a few choices on fixing the problem, whith flywheels, shim the motor shaft with KD fiber washers, enough that its play isn't so great, but not tight or you will bind the motor! And also bend the metal strip up and away from the flywheels. Or simply replace the metal contact strip with wire, soldered to the motor in each end and to BOTH trucks! If its the truck drive shaft coupling, where the in-truck contact comes up out of the truck, to make contact to the metal strip, bend that piece of metal up away from the drive shaft coupling slightly, and then bend the metal strip up to keep presure on the truck contact. And to simplifiy this, you can again, bend up the truck plate contact that goes down the inside of the truck, and solder a wire to this and run it over to the motor, and then run another the same way to the other truck. Making sure you have left enough slack in the wire to move freely with the truck and not to dinder the swiveling of the truck to follow the track work. I have removed almost all of the metal strip contacts in my Athearn loco's and soldered in wire. But I did not solder dirrectly to the motor brush clip... The pice of the metal stripping that snaps onto the top pf the motor I had left it. What I done what take it and snap it onto the motor ONLY, then about 1/8th of an inch away from the motor sticking out I cut off the ends and kept the metal strip section that just naps onto the motor I left 1/8th of an inch on both sides and soldered a wire to it in this locoation on both ends and then ran the wire over to the truck contact and soldered it as needed. But then I had to do alittle reworking on the head light which was simple, use stiff wire for this, solder one end to the bottom of the motor where it makes contact to the frame, and run it up the side and make sure you give enough wire so it can be formed to hold a shape, and then take another piece of that same stiff wire and solder it to the motor clip and run it out to where the light bolub is and solder it to the bulb, once you get one wire heres where you can add dirrectional lighting... to the top wire. Then solder the end of your Diode to the bulb for the dirrectional effect. you can do this to the front and back and have the stiff wire hold the bulb on its own and not need the solid light mount as Athearns have.
Hey EM-1, I have a project of a somewhat different sort that I'm hoping you might be able to take on. I have a pair of brass Alco C415s that have been re-motored with Overland can motors and flywheels, but still run like pig excrement. I'm assuming that the entire truck assembly would need replacement with somthing a little more modern. Is this somthing you could take on? The guy who did the motors balked at that part, but I would really like to have these two units run rell enough to actually use in yard service.
cthippo, E-mail me off the board and let me know just what the fellow did or done. I can do the work, thats no problem... Let me know what you may all want done and so forth. You can e-mail me from the red link in my signature, thats my e-mail address...
Ummmmmmmmmmm here's a question. Bet it has been asked before... in futility of course. WHY doesnt Athearn just improve thier motors and drives? Seems to me w/ just a little bit of tinkering and tooling investment, Athearn could raise the quality of thier engines, and probably ask a few dollars more. It would be well worth a little extra cost to the consumer. -Kitbash (I already know the answer... why improve something that sells like hotcakes already... if it aint brok.. dont fix it.) Just something I wonder about all the time w/ those folks.
Kitbash, The actual troubles aren't a Athearn concern with the motors believe it or not... Reason why is this, they make the frames, trucks, bodies ect, and BUY the motors from a company that makes them from probably Japan or China and puts them in the loco, and then make the drive shafts to fit the loco of choice, prefab I might add! So the slop and play in the motor is from the factory that had made and designed that motor, See? its not the fact of Athearn going and doing their own work on a motor they purchased else where... They just fit them to the frame and fit drive shafts to them before hand. they do alot of design work PRIOR to having the materials. This is all the trouble with Athearn loco's, thats why theirs things for us (the consumer) to do when we buy them. As for Athearn in general. I bet vital parts of my anatomy that the Genesis line isn't like their plain jane line! Everything is snugged up, and no extreme play anywhere.. See this is the thing. Goo look at the suggested retail of an Athearn SD-70 once. I think I seen it somewhere! Suggest retail is $265.99!!!!! Compared to their SD-40-2 at $54.00! REAL BIG difference. Would you pay $200 plus dollars for a loco that is basic, and has onlt been snugged up somewhat? The shimming and all? You see what I'm saying? I would never pay that price for something I can do myself and have the "hands-on" aproach! And as for Athearn, I've found a few things out about them. By June of this year they are going to again raise their basic prices 100% of what the cost already is! So that $40 loco will be $80 in june or its "supposed" to be anyway! And replacement parts for them is even worse! I priced a few white rubberish motor mounts a few months ago at 6 for $2.50 I think it was(and I bought like 6 packs!), and here like a week ago at the same place I priced them they are now like $4.00 for one pack! Matter of fact, Rembrandt Hobbies in Ohio has discontinued the Athearn parts stock they had, and once their sold out they will not be ordering anymore from Athearn because of the price increase! I have a 1999 price sheet from Rembrandt and they had told me that the prices on that sheet will be double that amount by June of this year! So... Look out guys and hold onto your wallets! Athearn prices are going UP AGAIN!
John, what you tell me doesn't surprise me one bit- remember I mentioned elsewhere in TB about the price of the Genesis covered hopper ($34.95). As much as I like Athearn locomotives and rolling stock (they make up the bulk of my HO scale motive power and rolling stock), with few exceptions they're not worth double the price- not with the motors and out-of-round flywheels, or the too-wide GP7s, GP35s and U-boats. Maybe I'm getting a bit on the gray side..... who knows?
Bob, I know its rediculous! I have alot of Athearn diesels and a ton of cars so.... And the price a year ago wasn't real bad but its going to get worse!
<font color="336633">I emailed Athearn about this as it rather suprised me and this is what they said.... "Matthew, The rumor of a 100% price increase here at Athearn is absolutely false. Best regards, Athearn, Inc. " target="_blank">www.athearn.com"</font>
Matt, Thats oddly strange! I can't imagine why or for what reason most of the hobby shops are closing out all their Athearn stock! I'm not just talking about parts either! I mean everything on the lines of basic stock Athearn loco's and cars! UNLESS, its comming down to the fact that these stores and their suppliers are going through some price increases and the distributors/suppliers are raising the prices at their warehouses and not dirrectly from the Athearn factory! Which is very possible! I've ran into this with Champion decals once. I carried them for myself and for my "regulars" to also buy if they'd like and my supplier raised the cost per pack and I droped his bussiness with him for that very reason! And now, I'm dealing with Champ themself dirrectly, till they go out of bussiness which isn't till 2003. And then still you will be able to purchase decals from their inventory! They are just discontinuing their printing facilities, and plan to have printed so many of each decal set they offer, along with the "Decal Set" solution that they also sell. So it looks to be that the Athearn issue is more of a distributor/supplier dispute then anything.... But I do know that their prices have went up at the factory! Last year I had ordered parts for a few Athearn diesels and a hand full of cars dirrectly from Athearn and found that Rennbrandt Hobbies in Ohio had/has a good line of parts on stock and they were 50% cheaper at Rennbrandt Hobbies then from the Athearn factory in Compton, California! But the issue now, is that in June the hobby shops are going to get another increase in Athearn stock, wether its parts, loco's or cars! I guess we'll see or a few distributors/suppliers are going to go out of bussiness with this ordeal.... Hopefully it all comes out in the wash as a "taking" to the shops by means of warehouse price increases!
My own theory is that Athearn's old kits are (or are perceived to be) selling less well than they once did. More people *are* opting to spend their cash on the limited run RTR stuff which will sell out quickly and *might* be re-run at some point in the future, and the "good old Athearn" that everybody knows will still be there to buy next week is not selling, and besides is dirt cheap secondhand at shows... If you were a hobby shop in that position, I'd be working to reduce the inventory of Athearn kits as well, at least till the stuff that's been sat there for the last xyz years finally sells! In that way, i'm guessing Athearn kits are very expensive for the store owner, as stuff that sits on shelves is dead money. I think it's a shame, but I think that's part of why Athearn have moved towards RTR versions of it's old kits... Just my theories, which could be wrong....
Martyn, See thats the thing too! They buy them to sell... Sadly when the prices increase on items that have not sold. You normally would try to restock newer items from a sale! Or this is how I go about "Cleaning" out the old stock then just leave it on the shelf and collect dust and "set on the item" and not make any money on it.... And restock the shelves with items that will sell and if its a must to get lower whole sale prices from a distributor/supplier then drop the ones with all the high prices.. I've been their and done that and knows its a real pain in the neck! I try my best to keep my repair parts prices as low as possible so that I'm making enough to keep the parts on stock and also make alittle from carrying the products, without excceding a limit and going into the high cost of "Get rich over night" So.... just like the Rivarossi Allegheny..... Their whole sale is low compared to what its selling for! Its WAY over priced!
